If there really is a developer shortage that we're always hearing about, then why don't more developers say "f. you" and walk away from homework assignments, 5-round interviews, cubicle farms instead of offices, etc. It would be a self-correcting problem -- companies that wanted good candidates would stop doing this shit. The only explanation I can come up with is that the developer shortage doesn't exist. Maybe it's a developer glut but we don't realize it yet?
Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
111–120 of 179 posts
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#112At Sourcegraph we faced the same decision and decided to go with an option for paid “homework” projects. It’s working very well so far. The payment is an important element of respect. More info at https://about.sourcegraph.com/blog/our-project-based-intervi... .
Paying shows you have skin in the game, value the candidates time, and you are not just handing out a ton of take home projects to every one who applied. I am sure some companies have the money to do so, but generally I think that is not the norm.
Off topic/curious: Is the take home project expected to be honor system 'closed book/closed internet'?
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#113If there really is a developer shortage that we're always hearing about, then why don't more developers say "f. you" and walk away from homework assignments, 5-round interviews, cubicle farms instead of offices, etc. It would be a self-correcting problem -- companies that wanted good candidates would stop doing this shit. The only explanation I can come up with is that the developer shortage doesn't exist. Maybe it's…
Excellent observation. We should all be asking ourselves why the laws of supply and demand aren't asserting themselves in the software development space. From what I see, companies are aggressively forcing rates lower and doubling down on insanely obtuse hazing rituals.
If demand were truly inelastic (what a "shortage" would imply) then rates/salaries would be rising and the on-boarding processes would streamline.
Their behavior appears to telegraph that there is no actual shortage.
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#114If there really is a developer shortage that we're always hearing about, then why don't more developers say "f. you" and walk away from homework assignments, 5-round interviews, cubicle farms instead of offices, etc. It would be a self-correcting problem -- companies that wanted good candidates would stop doing this shit. The only explanation I can come up with is that the developer shortage doesn't exist. Maybe it's…
I think it's because the average developer is the not the most socially dominant or forward person. They probably tend towards the introvert side of life, and so they want people to like them.
That means they're easy to push around.
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#115I've been burned in too many interviews for this kind of homework garbage. I simply won't do it, if someone wants to waste 1-4 hours on something, go for it. My apps/etc I build should be enough to see my work.
I don't want to waste 1-4 hours for every job I apply to, especially when I'm not one of the final candidates. I'm often blown off for not being caucasian enough or liking whatever sportsball team or brand of music the rest of the crew is into. To often I feel I'm thrown into interviews because they need to interview 7-10 people. Same with interviews without phone screening, there are lots of questions I can ask that can save both me and the employer time and money by doing a phone screen first instead of driving to their place (mostly talking about 30+ minute or hour long drives). I've been burned too many times with things they forget to mention that make it a job not even worth my time (required 60hr work week, mandatory overtime, etc) things I can find out with a screening.
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#116The title is a little click-baitey, because it suggests full on assault on homework. The actual post is more measured in its criticisms, but basically the idea is: don't use homework as a cop-out for not having a good interview process, and thereby likely wasting everyones time. Personally I like homework, because it allows me to show my strengths (actually writing code that is solid) without being "under the gun" in…
Ya I agree, I was all ready to blast it but then realized it had a couple good pointers in the case that you are gonna offer homework. I do disagree with the premise though. As someone who's worked in the tech field for 15+ years and has been on plenty of interviews, I for one would much rather do a short homework assignment than have to stand in front of a few people and white board shit in real-time. Here are reaso…
>If you complain about having to spend a couple hours outside the interview on work, maybe you don't really want the job that bad enough. People will spend weeks on an unpaid open-source project but then complain about 2 hours for something that might get them a great job.
I've happily spent weeks on unpaid open source projects and I complain about it. Mostly because homework requires no effort or investment on the company's part and it's too easy to hand it out to everybody and then toss candidates' hard work away after it's submitted because they don't like your name or something.
These days I mostly ignore homework requests and point companies to my GitHub profile. I haven't lost any good jobs that way. Companies that erect hoops that make it clear that their time is massively more valuable than yours before you're hired are going to treat you the same way once you're hired.
I disagree that homework is necessarily more realistic. IME all homework assignments have been the same kind of garbage asked by whiteboard happy companies - how to reverse a binary tree, etc. Pointless crap that has no relationship to 99% of real jobs in tech.
When I was running interviews I organized a 1 hour test during interview that was as realistic to the job in question as I could make it. I truly don't see why that isn't the standard.
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#117Ok, so let's summarize: no homework assignments, no whiteboard interviews, no "trick" questions, no "personality fit" questions, no work-sample exercises (could be interpreted as unpaid work), no relying on credentials.
How are we supposed to hire anyone?
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#118I recently did a homework assignment as the first step in an application process, and I didn't find it inappropriate or untoward at all. It's certainly not abusive, I don't understand why the author used this term. It got me through to the second step, a video conference interview with a couple developers and a chance to go over my code, explain my reasoning, answer some challenge questions, etc, in other words, tech…
You received a response. What if you hadn't? How many hours did you invest? How many of these would you be willing to attempt if you never got a response of any kind? When the author speaks of abuse, I believe -- in part -- this is what they're trying to highlight. For every submissions, like yours, that gets a response, there are probably hundreds that hear absolutely nothing.
I'm OK, within reason, with these homework assignments if they come after some kind of initial screening where the company has shown at least the minimum level of interest.
However, as the very first step, it feels off to me.
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#119If there really is a developer shortage that we're always hearing about, then why don't more developers say "f. you" and walk away from homework assignments, 5-round interviews, cubicle farms instead of offices, etc. It would be a self-correcting problem -- companies that wanted good candidates would stop doing this shit. The only explanation I can come up with is that the developer shortage doesn't exist. Maybe it's…
Excellent observation. We should all be asking ourselves why the laws of supply and demand aren't asserting themselves in the software development space. From what I see, companies are aggressively forcing rates lower and doubling down on insanely obtuse hazing rituals. If demand were truly inelastic (what a "shortage" would imply) then rates/salaries would be rising and the on-boarding processes would streamline. Th…
My interpretation (which I think is "more correct" than yours and your parent's because it subsumes both) is that there's a good developer shortage and bad developer glut, and the interview process is an attempt to sort an individual developer into one of the two buckets.
Although from personal experience, I've been rejected from several companies and gotten more than one amazing offers at the same time (i.e. in the same "I want a new job" career cycle). So maybe the categories aren't that clear cut.
Re: Companies shouldn't give candidates homework assignments
#120While the post makes a few good points, the underlying proposition is flawed: homework assignments are not abuse. The candidate can refuse to do the assignment if they would like. There is no forcing function on the work that would make it abuse.
In general, I'm in favor of any interview process that ensures the best people get the job. From what I've seen, homework assignments increase the likelihood the best person gets the job instead of the person who is best at interviewing. While it does take time on behalf of candidates, I'm not sure there is a better way.