Live data from Hacker News

National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

slate.com

31–40 of 391 posts

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#31
post #8
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's immoral and unethical, but it's legal. Do you think it is reasonable for people in prison to work to offset some of the cost of their room and board or do you think it should all be paid for by taxpayers? (I have a problem with creating an economic incentive to keep people in prison, but less of a problem with giving people something to do that helps pay for their food.)

Nobody should be in prison longer than their rehabilitation takes and the focus of their stay should 100% be rehabilitation. The prison system should be structured around reducing costs by getting people out of the system, not reducing costs by getting those in the system to do work.

Yes, unfortunately prison isn't about rehabilitation. It's about punishing people, it's about vengeance. And a lot of crimes are manufactured, laws created to hurt people we don't like.

And for a lot of people when someone does something pretty awful or scummy, we kind of want them to be punished severely for their crimes and are outraged when they're not, because we've been conditioned to feel that way.

We want some people to be punished and spend years or decades in prison. Maybe not you specifically, or maybe there isn't always agreement about who, but for a lot of people that's the deep seeded idea of justice.

It's a tough row to hoe to change that at every level. People need to agree with more sensible ideas and vote that way. But it's clear that a lot of folks prefer the most draconian approaches because that's what makes them feel better.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#32
post #27

A relevant snippet: “California inmates were sent off to fight what has become the largest wildfire in the state’s history for just $1 an hour. These firefighters, who volunteered for a vocational training program offered by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, are often disqualified from the work after release because a required credential is denied to anyone with a criminal record. Hundreds…

While we're talking about slavery, it might be important to mention that the constitution specifically allows slavery in this context: > "neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for a crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." - 13th amendment

IANAL but a naive reading of that could justify community service may be. These prisoners were not convicted and sentenced to be firemen.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#33

A relevant snippet: “California inmates were sent off to fight what has become the largest wildfire in the state’s history for just $1 an hour. These firefighters, who volunteered for a vocational training program offered by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, are often disqualified from the work after release because a required credential is denied to anyone with a criminal record. Hundreds…

> Either it’s worth it to us or it’s not. CA has to release thousands of prisons soon due to funding issues.

The biggest crime is if they come back into society without the ability to add to the workforce (due to their being former prisoners) or resources to exercise their entrepreneurship (ie, no connections or learning).

Then they are targets for recidivism and society loses out. Otherwise, I'm perfectly fine with less prisons.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#34
post #20

You cannot visit slate unless you accept the privacy policy. Which third partners they share the data with, and how to opt out? You never know, as you have to accept the privacy policy first before accessing the Third Party Partners page.

https://outline.com/fCXvYT

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#35

A relevant snippet: “California inmates were sent off to fight what has become the largest wildfire in the state’s history for just $1 an hour. These firefighters, who volunteered for a vocational training program offered by the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, are often disqualified from the work after release because a required credential is denied to anyone with a criminal record. Hundreds…

> Either it’s worth it to us or it’s not. CA has to release thousands of prisons soon due to funding issues.

Given the sheer number of people in jail due to drug possession, including a drug that is now legal in CA, it's clear a good number of those people shouldn't be in jail in the first place.

BTW, I'm not talking legally, I'm talking morally, they should have never gone to jail or prison in the first place for mere possession.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#36
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's immoral and unethical, but it's legal. Do you think it is reasonable for people in prison to work to offset some of the cost of their room and board or do you think it should all be paid for by taxpayers? (I have a problem with creating an economic incentive to keep people in prison, but less of a problem with giving people something to do that helps pay for their food.)

I do not believe anyone should be compelled to work against their will. If we want to lock them up, we pay for it.

[deleted]

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not believe anyone should be compelled to work against their will. If we want to lock them up, we pay for it.

If a non-incarcerated person finds it necessary to work in order to pay for their food and housing, are they being forced to work against their will?

A non-incarcerated person has agency. They have a choice of what work to do, where that work takes place, when to work, the ability to negotiate wages, etc.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not believe anyone should be compelled to work against their will. If we want to lock them up, we pay for it.

If a non-incarcerated person finds it necessary to work in order to pay for their food and housing, are they being forced to work against their will?

If I didn’t have to, I wouldn’t be working in the sense that I do now. I’d be pursuing interests that may or may not make money, but would bring me personal fulfillment.

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#39
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we're talking about slavery, it might be important to mention that the constitution specifically allows slavery in this context: > "neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for a crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." - 13th amendment

IANAL but a naive reading of that could justify community service may be. These prisoners were not convicted and sentenced to be firemen.

Are you implying one could be convicted and sentenced to be a slave ?

Re: National prison strike launches over underpaid labor and prison conditions

#40
post #21
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's immoral and unethical, but it's legal. Do you think it is reasonable for people in prison to work to offset some of the cost of their room and board or do you think it should all be paid for by taxpayers? (I have a problem with creating an economic incentive to keep people in prison, but less of a problem with giving people something to do that helps pay for their food.)

I think reasonable for them to work, as long as it’s voluntary and subject to the same protections afforded to any other worker, such as minimum wage. The problem isn’t prison work, it’s prison slavery .

It's not slavery.

But if you don't "volunteer" for work, you spend a week in solitary (aka: Torture).

Post reply on HN