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Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

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Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#421

Post by acomar »

madmax96 wrote: post #334

I get it. I hate login-walls too. The level of toxicity in the github issue's conversation is so astounding that I must say something. People on the internet are people. I hope that we don't talk to people in "real life" the same as we do when we make toxic comments online. Complain, write letters/emails to Docker, make your opinion heard, etc. But remember that you are dealing with a fellow human-being, who has thei…

People react when they face an issue that affects them. Tone policing like this says nothing but that you value the appearance of civility more than you do the harm people are complaining about. This is a fairly trivial example. But this is the same mentality that goes into telling NFL players not to kneel, so it's worth calling out.

When you focus on style instead of substance you draw attention away from the core of an issue. It's an effective tactic when it's what you want to do, but anyone who wants to use it should stop and think about why they want to obscure the point instead of addressing it directly. If it's because you don't have a valid objection, perhaps you don't have a stake in the discussion and you should think twice about entering it. Digressions that address the civility of the participants always serve to defend the status quo. Is it a status quo worth defending?

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#422

Post by dahart »

jjoonathan wrote: post #411
dahart wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Jerk” is a pretty mild word to express dissatisfaction. I certainly wouldn’t defend it. It’s not toxic because “jerk” is a bad or particularly strong word by itself, it’s toxic because calling someone a jerk is a personal attack, and it’s a judgement call that is purely mean spirited and doesn’t address any concerns. It doesn’t explain the frustration, it’s escalating things in a negative way, and it’s an insult.…

It's not a personal attack if it is directed at a company or the actions of a company rather than at a person. Its purpose is not to explain the frustration but to signal the intensity while clarifying the attribution: the person making the comment believes that Docker acted knowingly against their interest and does not buy the excuse that Docker put forward. I challenge you to express the same concepts with the same…

> It's not a personal attack if it is directed at a company or the actions of a company rather than at a person.

Splitting hairs perhaps? “Jerks” is intended to be an insult no matter how many people you’re talking to or about.

> it’s purpose is not to explain the frustration but to signal the intensity

Sure, that’s a plausible assumption, but it doesn’t help the conversation, nor make it okay or socially acceptable to hurl insults. Are you certain that was the purpose? Have you clarified that with the author of the comment?

Perhaps a better way to signal intensity is to explain what material impact the decision has on their workflow and daily lives. What is the cost in terms or time or money, or something else?

> whether or not something is socially acceptable is up to society, not to you.

Yeah, that’s correct. Did I claim it was up to me? I stated a fact, not my personal opinion. Throwing insults around is not socially acceptable, according to society, not me.

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#423

Post by techntoke »

ManoMarks wrote: post #408

Hi I head up Docker Developer Relations. There are plenty of ways to get Docker CE without logging Docker Store. See my comment on GitHub for more details. https://github.com/docker/docker.github.io/issues/6910#issue...

You missed the mark ManoMarks.

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#424

Post by rcoveson »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #403
sethhochberg wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're indeed giving away Docker for free, but part of the reason I hypothetically want Docker in the first place is that I trust the people distributing it to not do anything underhanded with their flagship tool's position as a product which runs thousands of other businesses' infrastructure. There is a certain degree of trust involved in using a product like Docker since it is so critical to a businesses' operatio…

So you have a complete attitude of entitlement that your preferred software must be delivered to you on your terms according to common convention. Nobody is permitted to act otherwise or we're gonna have ESR storm their office and take names. You're not a Berkeley grad are you?

Your thinly-veiled derision doesn't mask the fact that you are being willfully ignorant of the intent of the person you're replying to. You're not here from Reddit, are you?

It's not about entitlement, but it is about common convention. Docker's offering isn't unique enough for them to betray that convention.

The point of making something open source is to benefit from collaboration. Is not making the argument, "locking software distributions behind a login wall is harmful," simply a form of collaboration?

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#426

Post by hoschicz »

dberg wrote: post #301
ngngngng wrote: post #182

Docker is too heavy for golang, which is all I use scaled horizontally anymore. I can easily create a binary for any operating system. With dep (and even more so vgo) reproducible builds just really aren't a problem with golang. But when i've got a virtually unlimited number of green threads I can spin up with goroutines, why do I need to containerize to scale horizontally?

Have you checked out alpine ? Very lightweight image.

Since Go programs are statically linked, is even something like Alpine required? Isn't it possible to just build the Go binary from the "scratch" image? Maybe throw in glibc in there

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#427

Post by xg15 »

djflutt3rshy wrote: post #42

Would it kill companies to be honest and upfront about these sorts of issues? I feel like "Hey, we're unable to pay our bills unless we can better monetize our product" comes across a lot more honest and trust-worthy than this "We're improving user experience! Trust us!" pride-and-accomplishment nonsense that everyone keeps regurgitating. We're not preschoolers, the Internet can spot marketing slogans a mile away.

I think this is one of the core problems of the internet economy at large. We've build a huge ecosystem of services basically on the conditions:

1) Users think they are free

2) They are not actually free

The result is of course stuff like this.

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#428

Post by msla »

nickjj wrote: post #379
leothelocust wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Docker's defense they don't really barrage you with marketing. Although they may not barrage you now, there is no telling what the future holds with stunts like this.

> Although they may not barrage you now, there is no telling what the future holds with stunts like this. I think the future is pretty predictable. In the off chance they just wake up and start slamming you with unsolicited marketing then you can click unsubscribe in the footer of their email and you'll never see another email from Docker again. But really, I don't think Docker is foolish enough to do that. They've s…

> In the off chance they just wake up and start slamming you with unsolicited marketing then you can click unsubscribe in the footer of their email and you'll never see another email from Docker again.

No, you see tons of email from everyone Docker sold your "Guaranteed Live And Active" email address to, once it verified liveness and activity by you clicking the "Unsubscribe" link at the bottom of the email. And that's assuming Docker doesn't just keep spamming you, secure in the knowledge you're reading their earnest missives and care enough to respond to them personally and by hand.

> But really, I don't think Docker is foolish enough to do that. They've spent a lot of years building up their brand and business, and aren't reckless enough to put all of that at risk by relentlessly emailing their users with marketing agendas (if that's what they wanted to do they could have been doing that for years).

If they're suddenly in a different financial position, or change leadership, or for any of a number of different reasons, they could indeed go off a cliff like that.

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#429

Post by 40four »

notyourwork wrote: post #149
40four wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure you loggin wasn't saved & you were actually logged in? :) I had to install docker for a new project @ work recently and was forced to create a login & sign in (as I was not previously registered). I guess direct downloads are still possible since people are posting links, but navigating through the Docker website does not present you with those options. Super disappointing

I'm 100% positive I did this last week because I explicitly remember asking my colleague if we need to create an account or not. He said no but it appears the site has changed.

Wish I would have found those direct download links before. They got me! Sneaky bastards :)

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#430

Post by msla »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #403
sethhochberg wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're indeed giving away Docker for free, but part of the reason I hypothetically want Docker in the first place is that I trust the people distributing it to not do anything underhanded with their flagship tool's position as a product which runs thousands of other businesses' infrastructure. There is a certain degree of trust involved in using a product like Docker since it is so critical to a businesses' operatio…

So you have a complete attitude of entitlement that your preferred software must be delivered to you on your terms according to common convention. Nobody is permitted to act otherwise or we're gonna have ESR storm their office and take names. You're not a Berkeley grad are you?

> Nobody is permitted to act otherwise or we're gonna have ESR storm their office and take names.

You using ESR in your example is extremely hilarious.

The rest of your comment is pure low-effort, but that at least is somewhat amusing.

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