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Facebook is rating the trustworthiness of its users on a scale from zero to one

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Facebook is rating the trustworthiness of its users on a scale from zero to one

#51

> Because Facebook forwards posts that are marked as false to third-party fact-checkers, she said it was important to build systems to assess whether the posts were likely to be false to make efficient use of fact-checkers’ time. This seems like a "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" kind of thing. On one hand, I understand not wanting to forward every single story when a troll is mass-reporting, on the o…

> third party fact checkers

Seems like infinite regress and turtles all the way down to me. Who fact checks the fact checkers?

Re: Facebook is rating the trustworthiness of its users on a scale from zero to one

#52
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for FB anti-spam team, and believe me, nobody trusted user feedback absolutely (i.e. it's good to send to review, but not automatically take down). I guess that with fake news the signal to noise ratio is even worse. The whole article sounds more like focusing on one implementation details of review queue prioritization (i.e. what is the difference of definition of "fake news" for this user vs Facebook's def…

To me, fake news also includes slanted coverage of true events (i.e. covering events in such a way as to convey a sponsored message, biased polling methodology, etc.). That encompasses statistically approaching 100% of trashy sources you’re likely to encounter as 'sponsored content', as well as a healthy portion of more established sources' content. I'd be likely to report a majority as fake news in perfectly good fa…

The problem with conflating biased coverage with fake news is that the latter phrase becomes meaningless.

"Fake" means "false", not "stuff I disagree with".

Re: Facebook is rating the trustworthiness of its users on a scale from zero to one

#53
post #5

Can you GDPR request this?

It's not personally identifiable data, so probably not.

From the GDPR, Art.4 (1): "‘personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person".

This certainly seems to fit.

Re: Facebook is rating the trustworthiness of its users on a scale from zero to one

#54
Before reading the article, I estimate that the technical detail is this:

a normalized statistical value is generated for a particular user's willingness to share fake news

after reading the article:

a normalized statistical value is generated for a particular user's willingness to report news they disagree with.

yeah, nothing to see here..... :-/

I'll write a note to the journalist, hopefully they can elide or contextualize this kind of thing in further articles.

Re: Facebook is rating the trustworthiness of its users on a scale from zero to one

#55
A bunch of related thoughts:

1. How do we know FB will assign the scores fairly and objectively? We don't, of course, but is there any legal requirement or protection for users?

2. How is it like the Chinese government's social credit score? Right now Facebook says it's used for filtering user reports, but if FB becomes confident in it, what else might it be used for? Will they sell the score to advertisers and vendors so that they can filter customers? To credit score companies? To insurance companies and potential employers? Will it be used to 'nudge' mass behavior in certain directions? Is there anything preventing FB from doing those things?

3. As usual it's the powerful (FB, potentially their advertisers and other partners) who have information about ordinary people (FB users). Isn't it more important that ordinary people have trust information on the powerful? What is Mark Zuckerberg's trust score? Google's? Elon Musk's? Various politicians?

4. According to the article, FB isn't releasing the algorithm because it would enable users to game it (in fairness, I don't remember if FB said that or someone else). But those with resources and motivation, such as the high-end propagandists, will learn how to game it anyway, which can have at least two consequences: 1) Propaganda may become harder to identify, and 2) power will be even more concentrated in the hands of the few - FB, their partners, and those who can game the system.

5. As seems the norm for tech, the users have very little agency (other than to try to please the system); they are objects of technology and of those who control it. It bears repeating that we've come a long way from the world of free-as-in-speech systems and the idea that the goal is end-user control. In another context, an article posted to HN paraphrased Alan Kay as asking, 'Should the computer program the kid or should the kid program the computer?' [0] I think our society has answered that question for the present.

[0] http://wheels.org/spacewar/stone/rolling_stone.html

Re: Facebook is rating the trustworthiness of its users on a scale from zero to one

#56

> Because Facebook forwards posts that are marked as false to third-party fact-checkers, she said it was important to build systems to assess whether the posts were likely to be false to make efficient use of fact-checkers’ time. This seems like a "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" kind of thing. On one hand, I understand not wanting to forward every single story when a troll is mass-reporting, on the o…

At a superficial level, it sounds like China's social credit system. [1] Hopefully booking a flight never requires one to log into Facebook. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System

It's just basic reputation, a mechanism humans have used to improve cooperation since before they had become homo sapiens.

There's absolutely nothing nefarious about remembering previous interactions you had with someone. In fact it's impossible not to do so.

The problem with China is how it tears down the natural separation between different spheres of your life, how all-encompassing their panopticum can become because it has access to any data source it desires, and that the issues it engages with all seem to be of the this-doesn't-concern-you-and-nobody-is-actually-harmed variety, such as peoples' porn consumption or eating habits.

Re: Facebook is rating the trustworthiness of its users on a scale from zero to one

#57
> "Lyons said she soon realized that many people were reporting posts as false simply because they did not agree with the content."

So, people report posts as false when they do not agree that they are true?

I'm struggling to understand how that is a surprise, or what other possible thing you could expect. That's literally exactly what “false” means.

Re: Facebook is rating the trustworthiness of its users on a scale from zero to one

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, fake news also includes slanted coverage of true events (i.e. covering events in such a way as to convey a sponsored message, biased polling methodology, etc.). That encompasses statistically approaching 100% of trashy sources you’re likely to encounter as 'sponsored content', as well as a healthy portion of more established sources' content. I'd be likely to report a majority as fake news in perfectly good fa…

The problem with conflating biased coverage with fake news is that the latter phrase becomes meaningless. "Fake" means "false", not "stuff I disagree with".

But the parent commenter's issue does imply a solution! Just add "Biased/slanted coverage" to the list of reasons to report, and now your "Fake News" section is much higher signal to noise.

Re: Facebook is rating the trustworthiness of its users on a scale from zero to one

#59
I am tempted to paraphrase the Elephant man, "I am not a sigmoid function, I am a human being!" in response to that headline :-)

That said, I think it is great that they are trying to characterize this sort of thing. The second law of institutions is that every process must require more people to execute than can conspire without being detected[1]. But relying so much on humans in one way or another is going to gum it up. My mom for example, a certified human, would always flag anything that offended her belief system as 'fake news.' Fact checking is fine but it is important to understand that conspiracy folks actually believe what they are saying is true, regardless of any facts presented that contradict their world view. I have always attributed that to an internally rooted desire to "need" it to be true, either for their own self image or their own conscience.

[1] No, I just made that up. But the kernel is true, if you have a system that is being gamed you have to build a defense that cannot itself be gamed.

Re: Facebook is rating the trustworthiness of its users on a scale from zero to one

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good intentions? I would even argue against that. I find it hard to believe facebook has good intentions with this. Remember, Mr. Zuckerberg is alleged to have called Mr. Trump the night of the election to congratulate him. Let’s stop pretending like the tech industry is full of good intentioned people making an “oops”

What are you insinuating? Facebook as a whole leans left.

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