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After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

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Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#141

Post by mmjaa »

nostrademons wrote: post #35
mikeash wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow this stuff got built before. There must be a way to get back into that state.

Wartime. The interstate highway system got built because Eisenhower saw firsthand how effective having a national road network is for logistics in times of war, and so it became a national security concern. The transcontinental railroad was financed by the Department of War and greatly accelerated when the Southern states seceded - Congress had been denying funding for a decade before, but the first season after the…

Your nation has always been at war.

The reason your infrastructure sucks is because your nation would rather spend money on war than anything else.

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#142

Post by mmjaa »

ecolonsmak wrote: post #64
Analemma_ wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was built when the top marginal tax rate in the United States was above 70 percent, a level which would make a lot of people go into fits of apoplectic rage if you were to suggest it now.

If we want better roads, another space shuttle, the next wave beyond the integrated circuit, etc... most prudent course of action would be to reinstate the internal revenue act of 1954.

You could try spending less on shiny war machines and more on your people, also.

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#143

Post by mikeash »

teddyh wrote: post #140
mikeash wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, in the same way that a shooting murder requires someone to be in the path of the bullet, not just someone to pull the trigger.

Yes, of course, but the bigots and intolerants (i.e. the people shooting bullets) were here first . Introducing diversity into this world full of bigots and intolerants does create problems, and it’s a bit disingenuous to disclaim all responsibility when only pushing for diversity when you know it’s going to cause problems, especially since it’s mostly going to cause problems for the very minorities that diversity is…

The bigots were here first? Are you not aware of native Americans or African slaves? I can’t even.

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#144

Post by jdpedrie »

JustMatthew wrote: post #134
jdpedrie wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only statistics I ever see cited are those of the American Society of Civil Engineers, an interest group with a vested interest in increased infrastructure funding. I'm not hostile to the idea that we should spend more on maintenance, but I agree that we need some data from a less obviously compromised source. And that is setting aside the problem that increased funding has self-evidently not resulted in better q…

I can understand your skepticism, but the ASCE is a long-standing, globally respected professional association for credentialed civil engineers - the annual infrastructure report cards they issue are based on the field surveys that not only ASCE member engineers but that various local government and non-government bodies from all around the country take part in and carry out as well. If you say that you don't want to…

It's not "anti-intellectualism" to be skeptical of the word of someone who stands to directly benefit from the course of action they recommend. I'm quite sure that the ASCE is a fine organization populated by conscientious and well-meaning people, but there's a reason why scientists use double-blind studies, and why judges recuse themselves from cases in which they have an interest.

I agree that we shouldn't take skepticism of expertise too far, and I'm rather baffled at how you'd attribute the sentiment you're denouncing to my comment. What I want is more evidence from more sources. Only the most uncharitable reading of my point would conclude I'm advocating any srt of anti-intellectualism.

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#145

Post by teddyh »

mikeash wrote: post #143
teddyh wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course, but the bigots and intolerants (i.e. the people shooting bullets) were here first . Introducing diversity into this world full of bigots and intolerants does create problems, and it’s a bit disingenuous to disclaim all responsibility when only pushing for diversity when you know it’s going to cause problems, especially since it’s mostly going to cause problems for the very minorities that diversity is…

The bigots were here first? Are you not aware of native Americans or African slaves? I can’t even.

Those are/were acts of war – a different class of problem, I would argue.

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#146

Post by mikeash »

teddyh wrote: post #145
mikeash wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigots were here first? Are you not aware of native Americans or African slaves? I can’t even.

Those are/were acts of war – a different class of problem, I would argue.

I don’t understand what you’re saying. Diversity in the form of descendants of slaves didn’t have the negative effect you’re claiming back when the railroads or interstate highways were being built because slave imports were an act of war?

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#147

Post by jessaustin »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #127
jessaustin wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good point, but road use tolls don't have to be the same all day long. Charge more during rush hour, and poor drivers will find ways to use the road at other times.

In practice that means that the tolls are expensive enough to be a PITA for poor people all the time and a PITA for everyone but the rich during peak times. See the DC area for examples.

It may be grim, but in the short term that's probably the best we can do. DC should have fewer drivers and more public transit commuters: that would be a better place to live and work. They're not going to hold a lottery to let one poor dude drive in his own lane and stick some rich dude on a bus.

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#148

Post by mikeash »

closeparen wrote: post #132
mikeash wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a really interesting point and I’m sure it has a huge impact, but it can’t be the whole story. For example, the DC Metro suffers from this inability to get much done, and absurd costs and timelines when it does, yet most of their projects are underground or use existing rights of way.

Tunneling isn’t cheap. Much simpler to demolish whatever is in the way and make cross traffic wait (traditional rail) or go to one of a few specific overpass/underpass points (freeways). But such options are no longer even taken seriously. It’s just assumed that new transit must not interfere with the status quo. That has a cost, and it comes out of overall effectiveness. Projects built in an era of higher tolerance…

We did lots of tunnels before, though. Or look at Metro’s proposal for a western extension to the Orange Line. The track would be down the median of a highway that’s currently just grass. Not a single person would be displaced, nor would any tunneling need to happen. Still no movement on it after decades.

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#149

Post by teddyh »

mikeash wrote: post #146
teddyh wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are/were acts of war – a different class of problem, I would argue.

I don’t understand what you’re saying. Diversity in the form of descendants of slaves didn’t have the negative effect you’re claiming back when the railroads or interstate highways were being built because slave imports were an act of war?

The negative effects affecting the descendants of slaves can be traced back to being caused by the act of war that was abducting slaves in the first place. Absent any such abnormal occurrences, the bigots and intolerants could have lived a mostly peaceful existence in their non-diversified environment. As I said, it’s the combination of diversity and bigots/intolerants that makes a problem, not any one of them in isolation. One could well argue that it’s the very historical importing of slaves into the U.S. that is the cause of poor race relations today, just as much as it is caused by racists. If integration of the two cultures had been allowed to happen slowly and naturally by individual migration, a different situation might have developed.
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