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Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

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Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#191

Post by pritambaral »

teraflop wrote: post #96
alpb wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue in the post talks about "Docker for Mac" and "Docker for Windows" which is basically what Docker for Desktop is. The links you provided are just for the docker binary (which is, mac/windows they're just the docker client –not sure about what the linux binary contains). They're not the same thing.

The Docker binary for Linux appears to also be behind a login wall, at least if you follow the most obvious navigation links. (Even then, it's not trivial to find, because the standard Linux version of Docker isn't mentioned at all in the "getting started" section of the site. You have to know that they apparently call it "Docker Engine" now.)

> the standard Linux version of Docker isn't mentioned at all in the "getting started" section of the site.

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#192

Post by blt »

Myrmornis wrote: post #164
djflutt3rshy wrote: post #42

Would it kill companies to be honest and upfront about these sorts of issues? I feel like "Hey, we're unable to pay our bills unless we can better monetize our product" comes across a lot more honest and trust-worthy than this "We're improving user experience! Trust us!" pride-and-accomplishment nonsense that everyone keeps regurgitating. We're not preschoolers, the Internet can spot marketing slogans a mile away.

Agreed. It is extraordinary that intelligent, honest, discourse is so rarely employed when companies explain things like this. Why MBAs, sales and business types find it so hard to understand how appalling intelligent people find this style of discourse baffles me. Surely many MBAs, sales and business types are intelligent and empathetic people?

probably not. in my experience those fields tend to attract people who either a) only care about money, or b) get a kick out of manipulating people.

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#193

Post by ThisIs_MyName »

travisjungroth wrote: post #185
TylerE wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has there ever been a change to "improve user experience" that has _actually_ improved user experience? (Looking at you, Google.)

A ton! But they just don’t usually call it that. 90% of changes just make things better for the user. 10% make things worse, but they’re obvious and honest and we’re okay with it. And then 1% is the stuff like this. The Netflix/Qwikster you’re paying less but more debacle. The EA “sense of pride and accomplishment”. The Netflix (wait, why are they here twice?) show recommendations that aren’t ads that’s happening rig…

> The Netflix/Qwikster you’re paying less but more debacle

What did I miss?

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#195

Post by scrollaway »

djflutt3rshy wrote: post #42

Would it kill companies to be honest and upfront about these sorts of issues? I feel like "Hey, we're unable to pay our bills unless we can better monetize our product" comes across a lot more honest and trust-worthy than this "We're improving user experience! Trust us!" pride-and-accomplishment nonsense that everyone keeps regurgitating. We're not preschoolers, the Internet can spot marketing slogans a mile away.

> Would it kill companies to be honest and upfront about these sorts of issues? I feel like "Hey, we're unable to pay our bills unless we can better monetize our product" comes across a lot more honest and trust-worthy than this

The problem is that it's almost never that.

It's not "we're unable to pay our bills". It's "we've got more money than we need already, but we think we could get a lot more this way".

You think, say, Netflix is a struggling business and that's why they have to put more ads than before? No. In a capitalist system, leaving money off the table is increasingly unjustifiable as the number you're leaving off grows. Docker absolutely is in that same situation.

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#196

Post by marksomnian »

sandGorgon wrote: post #177
spullara wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker Swarm logs to segment.io, not sure about the other products.

you can use logspout to send docker logs anywhere

Not that type of logging. GP is talking about Docker Engine's telemetry/analytics.

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#197

Post by tannhaeuser »

mevile wrote: post #39

It's in Docker's interest to capture as much value as they can from their products, their calculus is changing. It's their decision to make, however passing it off as in the best interest of users is a bit of a whopper and not the best way to communicate it. I don't think entitlement to other people's work is the best response though.

Docker is just a thin wrapper around Linux (API + namespaces). Dockerfiles frequently install a whole userspace (such as Alpine's or Debian's) as a base, to then add proprietary bits. Basically, Docker can be seen as GPL circumvention device. People aren't entitled so much as they're frustrated as they realize they've given too much control to some inessential piece of commercial software.

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#198

Post by pluma »

travisjungroth wrote: post #185
TylerE wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has there ever been a change to "improve user experience" that has _actually_ improved user experience? (Looking at you, Google.)

A ton! But they just don’t usually call it that. 90% of changes just make things better for the user. 10% make things worse, but they’re obvious and honest and we’re okay with it. And then 1% is the stuff like this. The Netflix/Qwikster you’re paying less but more debacle. The EA “sense of pride and accomplishment”. The Netflix (wait, why are they here twice?) show recommendations that aren’t ads that’s happening rig…

Or Amazon's "Prime costs more now but it also includes Amazon Video which was so popular we couldn't get anyone to pay for it extra".

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#199

Post by pluma »

imglorp wrote: post #44
djflutt3rshy wrote: post #42

Would it kill companies to be honest and upfront about these sorts of issues? I feel like "Hey, we're unable to pay our bills unless we can better monetize our product" comes across a lot more honest and trust-worthy than this "We're improving user experience! Trust us!" pride-and-accomplishment nonsense that everyone keeps regurgitating. We're not preschoolers, the Internet can spot marketing slogans a mile away.

What's next? Opt-out phone-home, telemetry, crash reporting, quality analytics, whatever you call it. That's my prediction. My Synology personal file server started nagging about enabling telemetry and needing a privacy notice to store my files on my drive on my network. Screw that.

At least thanks to GDPR these companies now have to tell you and (in some cases) explicitly request your specific consent, rather than just doing it behind your back.

Re: Docker cannot be downloaded without logging into Docker Store

#200

Post by politelemon »

cdoxsey wrote: post #117

Docker is such a mess. As a tool for building containers its cumbersome, has bizarre and frustrating limitations and has issues that haven’t been addressed in years. You can’t use semver for tags, it eats up all your disk space and you have to manually GC it, etc… Multi-build support is basically useless and invariably you end up writing convoluted bash scripts to get the thing to work. Caching is terrible pretty muc…

> Please save yourself a lot of heartache and just use containerd.

Part of the appeal of Docker is the ease with which developers new to the concept of containers can pick it up. I cannot say the same for containerd. Try a search for containerd tutorials and compare what you find with docker tutorials.

> People don't realize just how easy all this stuff will be to replace.

Think carefully about why that is. If it were easy, it would have been understood. So, no - understanding the replaceability of the container components is not easy. That is why people have not realized it.

The issue with many docker's competitors is it appeals to docker experts. The abstraction and terminology itself is not straightforward.

A lot of hyperbole in your comment is unnecessary and/or undeserved. Of course I realize that this is HN where k8s, rkt and containerd are used largely by the visiting audience. But don't forget the dark matter developers.

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