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Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

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Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#81

Post by toast_coder »

uissna wrote: post #10

This is an open secret in tech. Visa holders have less job offers to negotiate with, less job mobility, and consequently get paid less. Companies preferentially hire them over Americans. Further, the recent actions making harder for "body shops" like Infosys are actually helping big tech companies win more visa lotteries. This means the recent action that was supposed to help American workers, is actually causing the…

You think this only effects IT?

You think salary negotiations are somehow immune to those same price pressures when we are dealing with the ppl who mow lawns, pick produce, and clean bathrooms?

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#82

Post by jcafe »

stochastic_monk wrote: post #63
aatharuv wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know that? Did you ask everyone their citizenship /immigration status during the interview?

It could be that the GP was using “American” to represent an issue of race rather than one of citizenship.

I'm asian-american myself and I was interviewed by other asians who I had trouble understanding despite being brought up around my own family's accent. I wasn't using "american" to represent race or citizenship.

I didn't see think of them as american because we clearly did not share anything in common and had trouble communicating with each other.

Side note: My grandmother is a US citizen, but she only knows how to say "Hello" and "thank you" in english. Bringing in citizenship feels disingenuous.

EDIT: Citizenship comment is regarding this conversation and not the article itself. Sorry if it seemed like an attack.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#83

Post by briandear »

fjsolwmv wrote: post #18
uissna wrote: post #10

This is an open secret in tech. Visa holders have less job offers to negotiate with, less job mobility, and consequently get paid less. Companies preferentially hire them over Americans. Further, the recent actions making harder for "body shops" like Infosys are actually helping big tech companies win more visa lotteries. This means the recent action that was supposed to help American workers, is actually causing the…

Attracting the most talented immigrants is exactly what this country needs to grow its economy. There are nearly no unemployed top talent, and talent (including immigrants) grows demand. Look how many startups are spawned from the top tech company veterans. Taking in brilliant immmigrants is a defenst against the whole industry shifting the balance of power to a different country.

If they are actually “brilliant.” Some Windows sysadmin a year out of school working for Infosys is typically not your future Google founder. If they are actually brilliant, there are visas for that and it isn’t H1-B.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#84

Post by stochastic_monk »

jcafe wrote: post #82
stochastic_monk wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be that the GP was using “American” to represent an issue of race rather than one of citizenship.

I'm asian-american myself and I was interviewed by other asians who I had trouble understanding despite being brought up around my own family's accent. I wasn't using "american" to represent race or citizenship. I didn't see think of them as american because we clearly did not share anything in common and had trouble communicating with each other. Side note: My grandmother is a US citizen, but she only knows how to s…

The point of this article is citizenship. I was just trying to understand the point you were making, and thank you for being clear.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#85

Post by sonnyblarney »

ekianjo wrote: post #43
hart_russell wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the company falls under US jurisdiction, it's incumbent upon policy makers to put Americans first

Why not hire the best no matter where they come from? I never understand why locals should get preferential treatment. Companies do business, not philanthropy.

" I never understand why locals should get preferential treatment. Companies do business, not philanthropy."

Citizens have absolutely no interest in enabling and empowering corporations unless they serve the community in some way.

Ergo, if corps serve only the benefit of shareholders and not really consumers or anyone else ... and the population derives no benefit ... then those people would vote to disable the very concept of incorporation, after all, why do they want these things around?

Clearly a case can be made for hiring some foreigners.

And more apt - if Cisco can benefit a lot from hiring people from India, it may be better for everyone if they are actually hired and working in India proper.

It's very reasonable for companies to consider locals for jobs 'all things being equal' ... even though they never are :)

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#86

Post by nradov »

fjsolwmv wrote: post #18
uissna wrote: post #10

This is an open secret in tech. Visa holders have less job offers to negotiate with, less job mobility, and consequently get paid less. Companies preferentially hire them over Americans. Further, the recent actions making harder for "body shops" like Infosys are actually helping big tech companies win more visa lotteries. This means the recent action that was supposed to help American workers, is actually causing the…

Attracting the most talented immigrants is exactly what this country needs to grow its economy. There are nearly no unemployed top talent, and talent (including immigrants) grows demand. Look how many startups are spawned from the top tech company veterans. Taking in brilliant immmigrants is a defenst against the whole industry shifting the balance of power to a different country.

The whole concept of "top talent" is a myth.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2002/07/22/the-talent-myt...

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#87

Post by cc-d »

jeremyjh wrote: post #80
cc-d wrote: post #75

Cap minimum pay to the equivalent of $150k yearly and watch as the h1b visa program magically starts working as intended. The solution is not complicated. With the anti-immigrant rhetoric pouring from the current administration, I'm surprised that blatant h1b visa abuse is still rampant.

There is no need for an artificial cap, just make it a bidding system. The companies bid for how many workers at salary $X. Highest bids are awarded the visas. Problem solved.

This may work for tech, but I'm guessing there are quite a few other industries with low volumes of h1b applicants/workers which could utilize a "bidding system" to hire well below market rate due to decreased demand when compared to tech.

$150k cap across the board ensures that all industries are kept honest. A bidding system can be added on top of that, if needed, but this extremely simple fix would ensure that the system fulfills the original goals it was created for, while adding no bureaucratic overhead.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#88

Post by tfolbrecht »

I'm curious to see what happens if a company like Huawei enters the US networking hardware market after cutting its teeth. Are we supposed to go with Cisco out of patriotism? Is the general public going to petition the government for protectionism?

I also wonder how long it takes wage suppression to propagate out into lower demand and shrinking GDP growth.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#89

Post by briandear »

ekianjo wrote: post #50
hart_russell wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but you're not addressing the point that immigrant workers can be paid less for the same work.

That is irrelevant. They get paid more compared to what immigrants would get in their home countries. And if you had to pay them as much then they would lose the edge during hiring - it is part of why they are also chosen.

However wage arbitrage is specifically against the intent and the letter of visa programs. It’s to fill actual shortages. If you can’t find a Python dev at $70k per year but you could find one at $100k per year, that isn’t a “shortage” — yet such “shortages” are what gets used to rationalize H1-B expansion.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#90

Post by DrJokepu »

uissna wrote: post #10

This is an open secret in tech. Visa holders have less job offers to negotiate with, less job mobility, and consequently get paid less. Companies preferentially hire them over Americans. Further, the recent actions making harder for "body shops" like Infosys are actually helping big tech companies win more visa lotteries. This means the recent action that was supposed to help American workers, is actually causing the…

> is actually causing the best jobs to shift more to immigrants and less to Americans.

Just to be clear: people on H-1B are not immigrants as it is a non-immigrant visa. They only become immigrants if and when they adjust status and get a green card at which point none of the limitations you listed will apply anymore.

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