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Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

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Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#41

Post by fickleycurious »

akarma wrote: post #26
throwaway28473 wrote: post #16

Honest question: if immigrants are willing to do the same job for less money, why do US citizens deserve special treatment and higher wages? Why should companies be forced to not hire in an economically optimal way?

I think the simpler form of that question is "what's wrong with globalism?", to which there's many answers. One of the foremost would be that an American company should support the livelihoods of the American people, especially as long as other countries like China wouldn't allow an American to work so easily in the reverse situation. It's just a natural tribal instinct, also, to care more for the welfare of your nei…

True but if the American company has market access to other countries, what's wrong with hiring people from such countries ?

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#42

Post by [deleted] »

fjsolwmv wrote: post #18
uissna wrote: post #10

This is an open secret in tech. Visa holders have less job offers to negotiate with, less job mobility, and consequently get paid less. Companies preferentially hire them over Americans. Further, the recent actions making harder for "body shops" like Infosys are actually helping big tech companies win more visa lotteries. This means the recent action that was supposed to help American workers, is actually causing the…

Attracting the most talented immigrants is exactly what this country needs to grow its economy. There are nearly no unemployed top talent, and talent (including immigrants) grows demand. Look how many startups are spawned from the top tech company veterans. Taking in brilliant immmigrants is a defenst against the whole industry shifting the balance of power to a different country.

[deleted]

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#43

Post by ekianjo »

hart_russell wrote: post #36
gerdesj wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America first or people first?

If the company falls under US jurisdiction, it's incumbent upon policy makers to put Americans first

Why not hire the best no matter where they come from? I never understand why locals should get preferential treatment. Companies do business, not philanthropy.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#44

Post by chii »

fjsolwmv wrote: post #35
akarma wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the simpler form of that question is "what's wrong with globalism?", to which there's many answers. One of the foremost would be that an American company should support the livelihoods of the American people, especially as long as other countries like China wouldn't allow an American to work so easily in the reverse situation. It's just a natural tribal instinct, also, to care more for the welfare of your nei…

The main problem with globalism is that capital conspires against labor but labor doesn't respond with a unified front.

Yes! I think that the amount of propaganda and cultural infusion of negativity against unions (often slurring unions with communism) is the real cause of the stagnation in worker rights and wages.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#45

Post by remarkEon »

gerdesj wrote: post #24
uissna wrote: post #10

This is an open secret in tech. Visa holders have less job offers to negotiate with, less job mobility, and consequently get paid less. Companies preferentially hire them over Americans. Further, the recent actions making harder for "body shops" like Infosys are actually helping big tech companies win more visa lotteries. This means the recent action that was supposed to help American workers, is actually causing the…

America first or people first?

These are American companies, are they not?

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#46

Post by [deleted] »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #28
fjsolwmv wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attracting the most talented immigrants is exactly what this country needs to grow its economy. There are nearly no unemployed top talent, and talent (including immigrants) grows demand. Look how many startups are spawned from the top tech company veterans. Taking in brilliant immmigrants is a defenst against the whole industry shifting the balance of power to a different country.

That's great except that H1B is not supposed to be used to suppress domestic salaries or replace existing workers (Disney IT). This is openly happening and the government won't do anything to correct this illegal behavior. It's 2018 and Trump's executive order has amounted to nothing. Consider these 2016 numbers from USCIS [1] (Can't find 2017 data. Wonder why). All of the Indian body shops pay sub-$90K as their aver…

[deleted]

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#47

Post by ekianjo »

leereeves wrote: post #31
fjsolwmv wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attracting the most talented immigrants is exactly what this country needs to grow its economy. There are nearly no unemployed top talent, and talent (including immigrants) grows demand. Look how many startups are spawned from the top tech company veterans. Taking in brilliant immmigrants is a defenst against the whole industry shifting the balance of power to a different country.

The downside is that they have no bargaining power because their continued stay in the US is at the whim of their employer. That good for the employer, not good for workers.

That is still better for the workers than not having such opportunities and working in their home countries. Isnt that a Win-Win situation?

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#48

Post by aatharuv »

jcafe wrote: post #19

Almost ironic that this article is from Bloomberg. Recently interviewed with them for a software engineer role and the only american I talked to out of 6 people, was the recruiter.

How do you know that? Did you ask everyone their citizenship /immigration status during the interview?

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#49

Post by toomuchtodo »

ekianjo wrote: post #43
hart_russell wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the company falls under US jurisdiction, it's incumbent upon policy makers to put Americans first

Why not hire the best no matter where they come from? I never understand why locals should get preferential treatment. Companies do business, not philanthropy.

Companies follow the law of the land, written by government for the benefit of its citizens (and not everyone can be a citizen; resource limits, cultural integration, those such issues, see the EU for examples of those challenges and why they limit economic migrants).

Companies should obey the law, or leave and be prohibited from operating in the jurisdiction (China does this successfully).

Edit: My apologies for reiterating this here (I mention it in a child comment), I don’t want to be verbose but I also don’t want to comment all over the place and risk a throttling flag: If you are a company and relocate, a country has many tools at it’s disposal to retaliate, and they should be used when necessary (see how the US almost drove ZTE to insolvency).

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#50

Post by ekianjo »

hart_russell wrote: post #33
fjsolwmv wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attracting the most talented immigrants is exactly what this country needs to grow its economy. There are nearly no unemployed top talent, and talent (including immigrants) grows demand. Look how many startups are spawned from the top tech company veterans. Taking in brilliant immmigrants is a defenst against the whole industry shifting the balance of power to a different country.

Yes, but you're not addressing the point that immigrant workers can be paid less for the same work.

That is irrelevant. They get paid more compared to what immigrants would get in their home countries. And if you had to pay them as much then they would lose the edge during hiring - it is part of why they are also chosen.
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