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Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

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Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#21
Corporate greed at its finest. The goal was to hire employees at lower wages and who couldn't just up and leave for another company next door so easily. This combined gets them workers who aren't allowed to negotiate and who are cheaper than normal workers.

When driven only by greed, all methods to get more money are always acceptable... unless you are caught.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#22
post #17
post #10

This is an open secret in tech. Visa holders have less job offers to negotiate with, less job mobility, and consequently get paid less. Companies preferentially hire them over Americans. Further, the recent actions making harder for "body shops" like Infosys are actually helping big tech companies win more visa lotteries. This means the recent action that was supposed to help American workers, is actually causing the…

> shift more to immigrants and less to Americans. Those immigrants are a helluva lot more American than you.

> meaningless words

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#23
post #9

Sad thing is - if this is going on at Cisco imagine what goes on in the farm fields, the restaurants, the hotels, and the rest of the lowest paying jobs in this country. If it takes YEARS to build a case against giant company how many little guys are getting away with it on a daily basis?

In the farms, even basic laws banning hiring illegal immigrants get immediately blocked by a coalition of pro-immigration activists and big companies in the industry.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#24
post #10

This is an open secret in tech. Visa holders have less job offers to negotiate with, less job mobility, and consequently get paid less. Companies preferentially hire them over Americans. Further, the recent actions making harder for "body shops" like Infosys are actually helping big tech companies win more visa lotteries. This means the recent action that was supposed to help American workers, is actually causing the…

America first or people first?

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#25
> Cisco, which reported $43 billion in revenue last year, employs more than 73,000 workers at its headquarters in San Jose, Calif., and international offices. The company employed nearly 1,600 visa holders last year.

If this number seems low, thats because it is. They probably "employ" another 70,000 contract workers, many of which are also on visas, but since they're not on the "official" payroll they don't show up. That they were cited at all for the 1600 visa workers in the first place is astounding to me.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#26

Honest question: if immigrants are willing to do the same job for less money, why do US citizens deserve special treatment and higher wages? Why should companies be forced to not hire in an economically optimal way?

I think the simpler form of that question is "what's wrong with globalism?", to which there's many answers.

One of the foremost would be that an American company should support the livelihoods of the American people, especially as long as other countries like China wouldn't allow an American to work so easily in the reverse situation. It's just a natural tribal instinct, also, to care more for the welfare of your neighbor than someone across the world.

I'm not commenting on the validity of those arguments, though, as I think a core part of America's success is being unusually open to immigration.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#27

Honest question: if immigrants are willing to do the same job for less money, why do US citizens deserve special treatment and higher wages? Why should companies be forced to not hire in an economically optimal way?

Because labor needs more power against capital. Immigrant vs non-immigrant is a shoddy technique, but constraining supply is an effective way to gain negotiating power against capital.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#28
post #10

This is an open secret in tech. Visa holders have less job offers to negotiate with, less job mobility, and consequently get paid less. Companies preferentially hire them over Americans. Further, the recent actions making harder for "body shops" like Infosys are actually helping big tech companies win more visa lotteries. This means the recent action that was supposed to help American workers, is actually causing the…

Attracting the most talented immigrants is exactly what this country needs to grow its economy. There are nearly no unemployed top talent, and talent (including immigrants) grows demand. Look how many startups are spawned from the top tech company veterans. Taking in brilliant immmigrants is a defenst against the whole industry shifting the balance of power to a different country.

That's great except that H1B is not supposed to be used to suppress domestic salaries or replace existing workers (Disney IT). This is openly happening and the government won't do anything to correct this illegal behavior. It's 2018 and Trump's executive order has amounted to nothing.

Consider these 2016 numbers from USCIS [1] (Can't find 2017 data. Wonder why). All of the Indian body shops pay sub-$90K as their average salary whereas all of the top domestic sponsors are paying significantly more. I'm sure the medians are even worse. So all a US company has to do is play the contractor shuffle and get cheaper labor. Also note that there are no listings for people with master's or doctorate degrees. H1B is clearly not being used for its intended effect.

[1] https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Resources/Re...

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#29

Honest question: if immigrants are willing to do the same job for less money, why do US citizens deserve special treatment and higher wages? Why should companies be forced to not hire in an economically optimal way?

Self-interest. It's (arguably) better for Americans that American companies (over) pay Americans.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#30

Honest question: if immigrants are willing to do the same job for less money, why do US citizens deserve special treatment and higher wages? Why should companies be forced to not hire in an economically optimal way?

The potential flip side of this is why aren't visa workers being paid market value. Are they held back so much by employer's biases that they can't reliably compete for a fair salary on the open market?
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