After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete • Hacker News Board

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#121

Post by logfromblammo » Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 9:47 PM UTC

mbostleman wrote: post #87

For sixty years, and maybe more, there have been those in either the press or politics that claim America's roads and bridges are disintegrating and the end is near. Yet I have lived in multiple regions of the country, in both dense and sparse populations, and if there's any impression I've had is that there is a very sustained, robust, and aggressive effort to maintain roads and bridges. In fact, it's something that…

2007: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-35W_Mississippi_River_bridge

75000 other bridges had the same "structurally deficient" classification in 2007. The I-35 bridge was at the 4th percentile for structural sufficiency when rated with 100000 bridges in 2005.

We are sending out engineers every year to look at bridges, and every year they are very nervous when turning in their reports. Whether things get fixed or not is often due to the economic situation at the time the report is made, and the local political will.

What I'm mainly worried about is dams, not bridges: https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/local/commun...

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#122

Post by jimmaswell » Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 10:08 PM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #111

jimmaswell wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have hopes for The Boring Company.

Repeat after me: Elon Musk is not the solution to all my problems. More seriously though: its easy to bank all your hopes on one person that seems to deliver things but this isn't how it works in real life. We need a system where its easier to plan and build infrastructure. Not to accept the system as given and wait for superheros who will fix it all by themselves.

I suppose the invention of the train and automobile by "superheroes" wasn't how real life worked either. In reality they were designed entirely by government committees.

Would it be better if we were more proactive as a society in investing in infrastructure? Sure. That doesn't detract from the fact that I like the prospects of what The Boring Company might accomplish.

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#123

Post by jimmaswell » Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 10:14 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #119

jimmaswell wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least a lot of our roads, including city roads, got to be planned at all - still better than the mazes of very narrow, disorganized roads established hundreds of years ago you get in very old locations in Europe, particularly old cities. At least this is the impression I've gotten reading some accounts on the subject online - can't vouch for it 100%.

Just imagine what our planning will look like in one or two hundred years (or even 30-40 years). I would bet those more walk-able and bike-able cities will look a lot more attractive...

I don't see self-driving cars/pods making better roads not be a benefit unless they're airborne.

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#124

Post by aseipp » Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 10:18 PM UTC

teddyh wrote: post #68

mikeash wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds more like a cost of bigotry and intolerance.

It’s actually the combination of both which is a problem. As you say, diversity wouldn’t be a problem if there were no bigots and intolerant people, but conversely, bigots and intolerant people weren’t as much of a problem when there was less diversity.

Some racist guy: "If the black people and immigrants had just stayed away and not come here, I wouldn't have to be racist all the time. Nowadays, you just act out like a racist, and people see it -- and wow, suddenly, people accuse you of being a racist? So then I have to get even more racist. Super racist, in fact. This is their fault, too, don't you get it? They're actively trying to make me as racist as possible."

You: "This argument is incredibly logical and sound. I see no way someone could disagree with it."

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#125

Post by jcranmer » Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 10:20 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #76

dcole2929 wrote: post #9

Stuff like this is why I have exactly zero faith in the US ever building the type of high speed rail systems that other countries have and we clearly need. These projects are simply to expensive for private entities to undertake alone and federal and local governments can't stay aligned long enough to see anything that last longer than an election period through to it's finish. Unless someone invents teleportation, w…

The I95 is a 1900-mile long interstate highway... That being said, with the exception of public transit systems like the NYMTA, etc., essentially all of the rail in the US is privately owned, and was privately funded.

> That being said, with the exception of public transit systems like the NYMTA, etc., essentially all of the rail in the US is privately owned, and was privately funded.

Government grants to railroads have a rich history. The B&O was partially owned by the state of Maryland (and had an exemption from state taxes!). Most of the western railroads were financed by the government giving them adjacent land to their tracks for free.

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#126

Post by ipsin » Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 10:21 PM UTC

I-710 in Los Angeles is another freeway that's taken 60+ years (proposed in 1954), and at this point I don't think it's ever going to be connected to the I-210.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_710

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#127

Post by dsfyu404ed » Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 10:24 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #95

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>so non toll payers also benefit from them. That's just a glass half full way of saying that tolls keep poor people from taking trips that would involve those roads so the roads are less busy. $5 or $10 isn't much when your lunch is an overpriced $15 bagel at some trendy authentic restaurant. People who are packing PB&J to the job side avoid the toll road even if it takes longer Road tolls are just another regressive…

This is a good point, but road use tolls don't have to be the same all day long. Charge more during rush hour, and poor drivers will find ways to use the road at other times.

In practice that means that the tolls are expensive enough to be a PITA for poor people all the time and a PITA for everyone but the rich during peak times. See the DC area for examples.

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#128

Post by forapurpose » Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 10:27 PM UTC

jcranmer wrote: post #55

dcole2929 wrote: post #9

Stuff like this is why I have exactly zero faith in the US ever building the type of high speed rail systems that other countries have and we clearly need. These projects are simply to expensive for private entities to undertake alone and federal and local governments can't stay aligned long enough to see anything that last longer than an election period through to it's finish. Unless someone invents teleportation, w…

In the US, true HSR (by which I mean 220mph/350km/h service) is not viable outside of the Northeast (where Acela already exists), California, and maybe Texas. Medium-speed rail, running around 125mph, could probably be viable in a Midwest network centered on Chicago, but the needs of Chicago's commuter rail and freight rail networks likely preclude mixing higher speed intercity trains with generally slower local and…

> In the US, true HSR (by which I mean 220mph/350km/h service) is not viable outside of the Northeast (where Acela already exists), California, and maybe Texas

What is this based on? Certainly there have been many studies. Also, to be clear, Acela is not HSR by that definition.

I can imagine many other places: Florida, then north to Atlanta and west to New Orleans, and then connecting to Texas. DC down to NC, then Atlanta, then connecting to Florida. Vancouver (with some international cooperation) to Seattle to Portland to the Bay Area, connecting to the rest of California. A Midwest network of St Louis, Kansas City, Indianapolis, Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Detroit, Columbus, Cleveland, and Cincinnati, Pittsburgh (connecting to the east coast via Philadelphia), and north from Detroit to Toronto and Montreal. Las Vegas and Phoenix might want a connect to the California network.

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#129

Post by forapurpose » Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 10:41 PM UTC

teddyh wrote: post #68

mikeash wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds more like a cost of bigotry and intolerance.

It’s actually the combination of both which is a problem. As you say, diversity wouldn’t be a problem if there were no bigots and intolerant people, but conversely, bigots and intolerant people weren’t as much of a problem when there was less diversity.

> bigots and intolerant people weren’t as much of a problem when there was less diversity.

Generations of abused minorities and women might beg to differ, from slavery to lynchings to internment camps to mass oppression, abused people from Germany (yes, you read that correctly), Italy, Ireland, China, Japan ... people who were Jewish, Catholic, Latino, African-American (of course), etc etc. etc. would all say otherwise. Assuming you are talking about the U.S., until 1920, women couldn't even vote. Until the approximately the generation who came of age in the 1980s, they didn't have access to most of the labor market - unless their husband gave permission (maybe that ended around the 1950s and 1960s) - and in most fields they still are excluded from the top positions and in many fields are still excluded from most positions except HR, receptionist, and organizing the office party.

EDIT: Some updates

Re: After 60 Years, I-95 Is Complete

#130

Post by kbenson » Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 11:03 PM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #123

kbenson wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just imagine what our planning will look like in one or two hundred years (or even 30-40 years). I would bet those more walk-able and bike-able cities will look a lot more attractive...

I don't see self-driving cars/pods making better roads not be a benefit unless they're airborne.

Current planning assumes a lot of parking is required. Streets allow parking on the sides, access routes are optimized for cars, every business wants to be as close as possible to street, etc.

I also think the shifts coming in transportation will be a lot more than an "automated uber". There will likely be a lot of automated carpooling and carpool discovery along the line of ad-hoc ride-sharing discovery. Bottom-line, I assume there will be a lot less parked hunks of metal in city centers, which will itself alter what an efficient layout entails.

The entire US is designed around personal automobile ownership to an incredible degree. Anything that affects that one way or another drastically changes optimal design layout for both residential and commercial planning.

As a simple example of this, if you've ever driven down a corridor of highway or an arterial route that is one strip mall after another behind parking lots, imagine how that changes is a large chunk of people are no longer driving their own cars leisurely, but instead hiring transport to a specific point. Road visibility is much less important. Parking lots in front are mostly superfluous. Basically, walk-able downtown areas and enclosed malls may see (and I think already are seeing) a resurgence.