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Vietnam Going Solar After Nuclear Power Plants Shelved

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Re: Vietnam Going Solar After Nuclear Power Plants Shelved

#81

I never understood how a country like Vietnam could afford nuclear powerplants when in Europe costs of building new ones skyrocket to 10 billion euro.

What does it cost in labour-hours rather than dollars? According to Google, minimum wage in Vietnam was $166/month last year.

Re: Vietnam Going Solar After Nuclear Power Plants Shelved

#82
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sssshhh. You'll ruin the narrative. It seems to me that the easiest way for a Germany to cut on energy needs is simply by having less people live there. I expect they would have been at negative population growth without shipping in a scad of people.

Well duh, the only other ways are “be more energy efficient” (hard because they’re already good at that) or “get everyone to do less” (I’d approve of that, but most people don’t seem to). Likewise, the cost of less people living there (or in any defined region) is less taxpayers, less people making stuff, and less people supplying stuff.

I can't say that an economic model built on continuous population growth makes any sense. The piper will get paid at some point. Even the current notion of driving down the average age via mass immigration will only last so long.

In any case, what really matters is the per capita wealth, not total.

Re: Vietnam Going Solar After Nuclear Power Plants Shelved

#83
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also we shouldn't forget we're talking about Vietnam. A country that is expected to follow slower (because it's not technologically advanced like some European countries or North America). Them having any kind of goal is a good sign, even though it might not be very ambitious in our understanding. Goals can be adjusted.

Actually I'd expect developing nations to be the first in adopting a clean energy grid. They have massively rising demand, so they're building new power plants all the time and don't have vested interests trying to milk every penny out of old coal plants. They also benefit from technological advances that countries with aging power infrastructure can't take advantage of. It's not like they're forced to re-live the in…

That's an interesting point. It's rather like the leapfrog to cellphones without intermediate steps.

No matter what tech is used, it'll be obsolete at some point.

Re: Vietnam Going Solar After Nuclear Power Plants Shelved

#84
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well duh, the only other ways are “be more energy efficient” (hard because they’re already good at that) or “get everyone to do less” (I’d approve of that, but most people don’t seem to). Likewise, the cost of less people living there (or in any defined region) is less taxpayers, less people making stuff, and less people supplying stuff.

I can't say that an economic model built on continuous population growth makes any sense. The piper will get paid at some point. Even the current notion of driving down the average age via mass immigration will only last so long. In any case, what really matters is the per capita wealth, not total.

All growth has to stop at some point, not just population. But if we want population to grow as much as possible, we can add a few more digits before we hit the planetary limits of anything other than stupidity and political short-term-ism.

(On the other hand, stupidity and political short-term-ism are exactly why we now have problems with loss of biodiversity, antibiotic resistance, a disrupted nitrogen cycle, phosphorus waste, a quarter of the CO2 in our air being artificial, boom-and-bust economic cycles, etc.)

Re: Vietnam Going Solar After Nuclear Power Plants Shelved

#85
post #28
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I'd expect developing nations to be the first in adopting a clean energy grid. They have massively rising demand, so they're building new power plants all the time and don't have vested interests trying to milk every penny out of old coal plants. They also benefit from technological advances that countries with aging power infrastructure can't take advantage of. It's not like they're forced to re-live the in…

Developing nations are generally poor compared to developed countries (duh). So they might not be able to afford energy sources with high upfront costs like nuclear, solar, or wind. If you ignore externalities, coal is likely the cheapest, unfortunately. This is exactly what DIDN'T happen with, say, telecom networks. Developing countries skipped directly to mobile telecom, allowing them to save a lot of money by avoi…

The upfront costs of wind or solar are about the same as building a coal or gas turbine power plant and have far less ongoing costs.

Really not sure why people parrot these falsehoods that are easily proven wrong.

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/generatorcosts/#total1

Re: Vietnam Going Solar After Nuclear Power Plants Shelved

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal is zero emissions, as soon as possible. The IPCC assumes we’ll have to have negative emissions, into the indefinite future.

The goal is not a certain level of emissions, as you say - negative emissions would be desirable. A 50% reduction will be a great improvement, a 90% reduction will be almost as good as 100%. 110% even better... Our task is to reduce emissions as fast as possible. But what is "possible" still entails economic, environmental and safety limitations and priorities.

There is a carbon budget that countries have agreed to (though the budget is too optimistic, and countries aren’t really committed to it). Either we stick to the agreements we made, or we keep doing whatever we feel like doing.

Re: Vietnam Going Solar After Nuclear Power Plants Shelved

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that’s interesting, because University of Minnesota ran simulations with MISO that stated batteries and solar would outperform a gas peaker on that grid financially in the next few years. http://energytransition.umn.edu/modernizing-minnesotas-grid-...

My state's power companies all run solar and wind installations, and are incredibly heavily regulated, and all charge extra if you want power from them. Without a doubt wind and solar cost more in my southern state than Nat-Gas. Solar is a complete waste as other providers require contracts to stay available to pick up the slack on cloudy days, and that price is directly accountable against the solar energy making it…

The Department of Justice took Entergy to court for this sort of behavior; that’s why they were forced to join MISO.

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/opinion/columnists/2018/...

Re: Vietnam Going Solar After Nuclear Power Plants Shelved

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that’s interesting, because University of Minnesota ran simulations with MISO that stated batteries and solar would outperform a gas peaker on that grid financially in the next few years. http://energytransition.umn.edu/modernizing-minnesotas-grid-...

My state's power companies all run solar and wind installations, and are incredibly heavily regulated, and all charge extra if you want power from them. Without a doubt wind and solar cost more in my southern state than Nat-Gas. Solar is a complete waste as other providers require contracts to stay available to pick up the slack on cloudy days, and that price is directly accountable against the solar energy making it…

That is too bad. My wind plan in Maryland is less than 10 cents per kw hr.
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