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'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

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Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#121

Post by vostok »

dgzl wrote: post #79

I propose that we petition Congress to repeal this law: "Tipping again changed in the 1960s, when Congress agreed that workers could receive a lower minimum wage if a portion of their salary came from tips. The minimum wage for tipped workers is $2.13, which has not changed in over 20 years, as long as those workers receive at least $7.25 in tips per hour. Saru Jayaraman, author of Behind the Kitchen Door, explains t…

I'm not sure that has much to do with it. People don't become servers to make minimum wage.

Imagine if you receive an offer with $160k salary per year, $100k expected public RSUs per year, and $100k expected bonus per year. You'll be upset if you only make $160k salary even though that's above minimum wage.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#122

Post by sneak »

pacaro wrote: post #21
blacksqr wrote: post #8

It seems to me that tipping has evolved from an incentive and reward for good service to a form of voluntary workfare where those who have something to spare decide to share with those still struggling in the low end of the service economy.

I think that the history of tipping is more complex than that. My understanding is that at high end restaurants back in the day waitstaff paid the house for tables, and their entire income was from tips. That being said, I’d much rather society move towards the idea that every job pay at least a living wage

Leave “society” out of it. All it would take is for the people you’re attempting to help choose to stop voluntarily accepting to work for less than a living wage. It’s not your or anyone else’s place to tell them that they can’t or shouldn’t be able to do that if they choose.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#124

Post by [deleted] »

jldugger wrote: post #56
freditup wrote: post #36

I am confused as to why it's standard to tip some low-paid workers but not others: * Fast-food workers do just as much work as coffee shop employees, why not tip them? * Workers at clothing stores take the time to fold your clothes nicely and box/bag them for you - why not tip them? * Grocery store checkout clerks in the city carefully bag up your goods so you can carry them with just two hands - why not tip them? *…

FWIW, tipped workers typically work for an hourly wage lower than the minimum wage, and are expected to earn the rest from tips. Most of the jobs you're talking about are not in the tipping wage category, and management just has to monitor carefully. Fast food has tons of computers to do exactly that, and even department stores have secret shoppers and cameras to observe staff. Grocery stores have crazy levels of cam…

[deleted]

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#125

Post by mnm1 »

hoodwink wrote: post #25
duxup wrote: post #13

Lots of fast casual places now have a tip on their screens. I always choose 0. I mean seriously the only interaction I'm having lasted 30 seconds, I'll never see this person again / they won't do anything more for me, no tip needed... I hate tipping as it is (granted I do tip in non fast casual food situations). I'd rather just the cost be up front.

I used to feel the same, but then I started to appreciate just how fortunate I am to not have to work in retail. This isn’t because I’m better. It’s just because I was born into the right situation. I always tip now and use the experience as a reminder not to take my fortune for granted. It’s also a reminder that everything I have might be taken away at any time.

It's too bad the owners of such establishments don't remind themselves in the same way by giving their employees living wages. I too am fortunate and thankful and have been duped many times but you know who is a lot more fortunate? The owners of these places trying to displace their costs onto us.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#126

Post by CoreDumpling »

RickS wrote: post #109
matthewowen wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a point of information: there is no reduced minimum wage for tipped workers in California. Wait staff etc must still receive full minimum wage in addition to any tips they receive.

I don't think that changes the expectations on the waitstaff side, or the sense of obligation on the tippers' side. The mountain that needs to be climbed here is about narrative/social norms, not real economics. Unfortunately I think that bigger than shifting social norms will be shifting customer price expectations. If you kill tipping, expect wages to go up, even in CA, as staff expect (and perhaps legitimately req…

Norway and Singapore tax the crap out of cars and are still doing fine.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#127

Post by scarejunba »

jldugger wrote: post #105
scarejunba wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the context of the article (CA and SF in particular), there is no tipped minimum wage. If your wage is minimum you make minimum, and that minimum is higher than most. If you make tips, they go on top.

Interesting, I thought OR was the only state like that. Of course, 'round here minimum wage is like 15 bucks, going by the ads on the In'n'out. Edit: how do you account for this page which indicates a (slightly) lower tipped wage in CA? https://www.minimum-wage.org/california/tipped-employee-mini...

Don't know where that site is getting their info from. Try this for latest facts: https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

You can sanity check that website by looking up your OR (which the site claims has a tipped minimum wage).

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#128

Post by jen729w »

rosege wrote: post #52

When I was last in the US I noticed that restaurants generally seemed to charge similar amounts to my expensive city (Sydney) but that was before the tip. So is it a lot more profitable to run a restaurant in the US because you essentially offload the labour cost from the meal to the tip but can keep the meal a similar price? Also if its something that is generally always expected to be 20% then why not charge extra…

We (Melbourne) noticed the opposite: the US seems really cheap, until you actually get the bill and add on sales tax and tip; then, turns out, it’s about the same as here.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#129

Post by Paul-ish »

hoodwink wrote: post #25
duxup wrote: post #13

Lots of fast casual places now have a tip on their screens. I always choose 0. I mean seriously the only interaction I'm having lasted 30 seconds, I'll never see this person again / they won't do anything more for me, no tip needed... I hate tipping as it is (granted I do tip in non fast casual food situations). I'd rather just the cost be up front.

I used to feel the same, but then I started to appreciate just how fortunate I am to not have to work in retail. This isn’t because I’m better. It’s just because I was born into the right situation. I always tip now and use the experience as a reminder not to take my fortune for granted. It’s also a reminder that everything I have might be taken away at any time.

Is tipping a solution to to others misfortune?

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#130

Post by chrisbennet »

sneak wrote: post #122
pacaro wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the history of tipping is more complex than that. My understanding is that at high end restaurants back in the day waitstaff paid the house for tables, and their entire income was from tips. That being said, I’d much rather society move towards the idea that every job pay at least a living wage

Leave “society” out of it. All it would take is for the people you’re attempting to help choose to stop voluntarily accepting to work for less than a living wage. It’s not your or anyone else’s place to tell them that they can’t or shouldn’t be able to do that if they choose.

That course of action would imply that they can get another job that pays a living wage.
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