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'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

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Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#31

Post by maym86 »

smittywerben wrote: post #19
maym86 wrote: post #2

Guess what, you still don't have to tip if you don't want to. Your "guilt" is your problem, not a problem with the iPad. Anything that increases the takehome pay of low paid service workers in SF seems fine. It is entirely opt in. An article featuring complaints about some of the lowest paid people in SF getting paid a little more because of a new technology lacks some self awareness.

> Your guilt is your problem I'm sorry, who are you?

In this scenario, especially in SF as a tech worker, you should feel guilty if you can afford to spare a dollar for someone on minimum wage for a tip but are reaching for the zero button. Having the iPad highlight your stingyness is not a problem with the technology.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#32

Post by joelrunyon »

I really don't like how this is moving from just food-service workers to pretty much everything.

The #1 reason I liked Uber/Lyft was you didn't have to tip. Then the margins didn't make sense and now they ask for it. I shouldn't have to subsidize those rides with tips because you're not paying the driver enough. Just charge me the price you need to charge me.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#33

Post by keithnz »

exacube wrote: post #14
blacksqr wrote: post #8

It seems to me that tipping has evolved from an incentive and reward for good service to a form of voluntary workfare where those who have something to spare decide to share with those still struggling in the low end of the service economy.

yes! tipping is like a naturally occuring form of redistrbution of wealth in capitalist countries :) I personally view the evolution of tipping culture as positive on the whole. and also, I think people tend to tip a bit higher if they feel good about the service, so it still incentivizes good service. When I visit Europe, I am reminded how nice the service industry in America is.

Nothing quite like holding the barrel of 'not being able to afford to live' to someones head to get them to give you great service. I'm reminded from a number of times when I travel to the US and talk with people from the service industry and finding out they are, anecdotally, mostly in financial crisis.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#34

Post by whalesalad »

It feels like a dark pattern for sure. I tip for service and service only. I regularly hit the no tip button on the new interfaces. I wish I didn’t have to worry about tipping... I miss Uber when it abstracted that away. But alas it only works when they compensate drivers properly.

Tipping in general sucks. I feel like most of the time it’s manipulating customers into squeezing a little extra on the top. Just raise your prices.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#35

Post by brian-armstrong »

notyourwork wrote: post #20
brian-armstrong wrote: post #15

The tip calculator on these is surprisingly broken in obvious ways. For example, if you order a cup of coffee and merchandise or a bag of beans, it calculates 15% on the entire order. Wtf!

You usually do tip on the full amount right?

No, you would tip on the food service amount only. Similary you would not tip at a convenience store or grocery store. At least, this is my US centric viewpoint - other locations might have different customs

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#36

Post by freditup »

I am confused as to why it's standard to tip some low-paid workers but not others:

* Fast-food workers do just as much work as coffee shop employees, why not tip them?

* Workers at clothing stores take the time to fold your clothes nicely and box/bag them for you - why not tip them?

* Grocery store checkout clerks in the city carefully bag up your goods so you can carry them with just two hands - why not tip them?

* The guy collecting trash from the streets to keep them clean is helping everyone, why not tip him?

It does seem at some point the tipping system will grow so large it'll collapse in on itself. Sadly though, places that have tried to move that direction, in NYC at least, seem to have struggled [0][1].

[0]: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/why-res... [1]: http://gothamist.com/2017/10/19/danny_meyer_no_tipping.php

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#37

Post by brian-armstrong »

freditup wrote: post #26
notyourwork wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You usually do tip on the full amount right?

The parent's point is that you don't normally tip on merchandise you buy. If you buy a beer for $10 and a tshirt for $30 from a bartender, a typical tip would be $2 not $8. That said, it's sort of an arbitrary custom. It's not very much work to fill a glass of beer, find a t-shirt in some cabinet, or hand someone a cup of coffee.

Not like it makes much of a difference, but in the cases where I've seen it, the merchandise is just on display on the floor. So there is not even an aspect of retrieving it from the cabinet, it is just being rung up.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#38

Post by Camillo »

maym86 wrote: post #2

Guess what, you still don't have to tip if you don't want to. Your "guilt" is your problem, not a problem with the iPad. Anything that increases the takehome pay of low paid service workers in SF seems fine. It is entirely opt in. An article featuring complaints about some of the lowest paid people in SF getting paid a little more because of a new technology lacks some self awareness.

Look, if you want to pay them more, pay them more. I'm all for it. I just don't want each retail transaction to be turned into a labor negotiation!

Tipping at restaurants is bad enough: why do I have to decide how much the waiter should make? If you make me think about it, 20% gross honestly seems way too much: the back of the house contributes a much larger portion of the value of the meal, so it feels like I'm stiffing _them_! But tipping waiters is ingrained enough that I just always give that 20%.

Any other transaction where apps try to add tipping, though? That's going to be $0 every single time, guilt free. If anything, I feel like I'm doing my part to keep companies from ruining another social interaction.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#39

Post by smelendez »

pacaro wrote: post #21
blacksqr wrote: post #8

It seems to me that tipping has evolved from an incentive and reward for good service to a form of voluntary workfare where those who have something to spare decide to share with those still struggling in the low end of the service economy.

I think that the history of tipping is more complex than that. My understanding is that at high end restaurants back in the day waitstaff paid the house for tables, and their entire income was from tips. That being said, I’d much rather society move towards the idea that every job pay at least a living wage

That's still true in some tipped industries. Hairstylists and barbers pay to rent "a chair" in the salon, and strippers pay their clubs to dance for the night.

If you go to a bar with "shot girls" who stroll around selling shots, they've often bought the booze from the bar to resell to you.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#40

Post by rahimnathwani »

duxup wrote: post #13

Lots of fast casual places now have a tip on their screens. I always choose 0. I mean seriously the only interaction I'm having lasted 30 seconds, I'll never see this person again / they won't do anything more for me, no tip needed... I hate tipping as it is (granted I do tip in non fast casual food situations). I'd rather just the cost be up front.

It seems strange to ask for a tip before the service has been rendered, if the tip is an incentive for good service.
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