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'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

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Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#21

Post by pacaro »

blacksqr wrote: post #8

It seems to me that tipping has evolved from an incentive and reward for good service to a form of voluntary workfare where those who have something to spare decide to share with those still struggling in the low end of the service economy.

I think that the history of tipping is more complex than that. My understanding is that at high end restaurants back in the day waitstaff paid the house for tables, and their entire income was from tips.

That being said, I’d much rather society move towards the idea that every job pay at least a living wage

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#22

Post by jonny_eh »

pacaro wrote: post #21
blacksqr wrote: post #8

It seems to me that tipping has evolved from an incentive and reward for good service to a form of voluntary workfare where those who have something to spare decide to share with those still struggling in the low end of the service economy.

I think that the history of tipping is more complex than that. My understanding is that at high end restaurants back in the day waitstaff paid the house for tables, and their entire income was from tips. That being said, I’d much rather society move towards the idea that every job pay at least a living wage

Where did you hear that? Doesn't sound believable to me at all.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#23

Post by enra »

notyourwork wrote: post #20
brian-armstrong wrote: post #15

The tip calculator on these is surprisingly broken in obvious ways. For example, if you order a cup of coffee and merchandise or a bag of beans, it calculates 15% on the entire order. Wtf!

You usually do tip on the full amount right?

Usually in restaurants where all the of the goods are individually prepare / served.

Many cafes sell also beans and other merchandise that are manufactured or made in batches, and can be $20 per item. So tipping on those items would be similar than you tipping in grocery stores or other stores that sell goods. Like you buy a $20k car, do you tip them 20%?

Personally, I always just change the default calculation and tip on the service items like $1 for coffee/drink.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#24

Post by exacube »

KyeRussell wrote: post #16
exacube wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes! tipping is like a naturally occuring form of redistrbution of wealth in capitalist countries :) I personally view the evolution of tipping culture as positive on the whole. and also, I think people tend to tip a bit higher if they feel good about the service, so it still incentivizes good service. When I visit Europe, I am reminded how nice the service industry in America is.

Or you could just have a living minimum wage, lol.

yes, if the government could manage to pass a good law there :) but in the event that the government won't, tipping helps correct the situation.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#25

Post by hoodwink »

duxup wrote: post #13

Lots of fast casual places now have a tip on their screens. I always choose 0. I mean seriously the only interaction I'm having lasted 30 seconds, I'll never see this person again / they won't do anything more for me, no tip needed... I hate tipping as it is (granted I do tip in non fast casual food situations). I'd rather just the cost be up front.

I used to feel the same, but then I started to appreciate just how fortunate I am to not have to work in retail. This isn’t because I’m better. It’s just because I was born into the right situation.

I always tip now and use the experience as a reminder not to take my fortune for granted. It’s also a reminder that everything I have might be taken away at any time.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#26

Post by freditup »

notyourwork wrote: post #20
brian-armstrong wrote: post #15

The tip calculator on these is surprisingly broken in obvious ways. For example, if you order a cup of coffee and merchandise or a bag of beans, it calculates 15% on the entire order. Wtf!

You usually do tip on the full amount right?

The parent's point is that you don't normally tip on merchandise you buy. If you buy a beer for $10 and a tshirt for $30 from a bartender, a typical tip would be $2 not $8.

That said, it's sort of an arbitrary custom. It's not very much work to fill a glass of beer, find a t-shirt in some cabinet, or hand someone a cup of coffee.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#28

Post by maym86 »

jaysonelliot wrote: post #18
maym86 wrote: post #2

Guess what, you still don't have to tip if you don't want to. Your "guilt" is your problem, not a problem with the iPad. Anything that increases the takehome pay of low paid service workers in SF seems fine. It is entirely opt in. An article featuring complaints about some of the lowest paid people in SF getting paid a little more because of a new technology lacks some self awareness.

Another way to look at it is that companies are making it easier to underpay their workers by offloading the responsibility for seeing that they're fairly compensated to their customers. Repeated studies have shown that tipping is inherently discriminatory, with people of color faring worse than, say, conventionally "pretty" blonde women. In this case, the workers don't even get the one benefit of tipping that wait s…

I agree entirely. Ideally all this tipping nonsense would go away and people would have a decent wage without it.

My main objection was more to do with the sentiment of well paid tech workers I have met who complain about this technology because they feel pressured to tip a low paid workers more. A position I have little sympathy for.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#29

Post by ggm »

The article explicitly addresses SF So this article is about a state which enforces a minimum wage above the US norm for workers in tip-heavy industries. US minimum wage is like $2.15 and federally mandated tip+wage rate is $7.25 and the Californian state wage is $10. This is functionally equivalent to federal minimum plus 30%.

I realize the transition moment here is confronting, and with family who work and depend on this class of labour I am completely aware of the immediate pay consequence, but even with this,

I think Californians should grab an opportunity to walk off tip culture, and walk into 'fair pay for work' culture.

The minimum wage is not fair? Lets support all workers for a fair minimum wage. End tip culture.

Re: 'Coerced into tipping'? How apps are changing the culture of tipping in SF

#30

Post by decebalus1 »

hoodwink wrote: post #25
duxup wrote: post #13

Lots of fast casual places now have a tip on their screens. I always choose 0. I mean seriously the only interaction I'm having lasted 30 seconds, I'll never see this person again / they won't do anything more for me, no tip needed... I hate tipping as it is (granted I do tip in non fast casual food situations). I'd rather just the cost be up front.

I used to feel the same, but then I started to appreciate just how fortunate I am to not have to work in retail. This isn’t because I’m better. It’s just because I was born into the right situation. I always tip now and use the experience as a reminder not to take my fortune for granted. It’s also a reminder that everything I have might be taken away at any time.

Just like George Carlin said: "The upper class keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there just to scare the shit out of the middle class. Keep 'em showin' up at those jobs."
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