Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 160 posts

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#81

Post by Leary »

hkai wrote: post #24
coldtea wrote: post #18

Tourism drops. I'd contrast that with other countries, which e.g. topple governments or downright invade, but that would be whataboutism, and whataboutism is bad /s

I think it is reasonable to expect China to topple foreign governments in the near future. It has a powerful military, a highly nationalist government and an ambition to own at least everything within the Nine Dash Line, or more. And that's pretty scary because we in Hong Kong have felt the chilling effect of Chinese meddling into the judiciary, media and government.

Where outside of the Nine Dash Line does China want to own?

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#82

Post by tepidandroid »

h4b4n3r0 wrote: post #30
Retric wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwan has a relatively strong military and while China would easily win any war, it would be crazy to fight it’s military.

As the past 60 years of US Military action have made abundantly clear, even for the best military on the planet by quite a margin no war is “easy” to win. Now, granted, China won’t agonize about collateral damage the way we do, but even then it’s not “easy”, especially if you plan to take permanent control of the territory afterwards. For that to happen, the overwhelming majority of the country has to _want_ such con…

> Now, granted, China won’t agonize about collateral damage the way we do

Please qualify this statement.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#83

Post by skh »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #29
coldtea wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. Doesn't this answer your own question? 50 years are nothing in historical terms.

Go back further and Taiwan was under Japanese occupation and the People's Republic of China didn't yet exist. So if the short timescale discounts Taiwan shouldn't it also discount China?

I think the point is there are different perspectives that have some merit to them. Both sides have compelling points. But one thing is clear, the PRC have always considered Taiwan part of the China and currently they will not countenance a different view on the matter. Will the U.S. be vigilant enough for long enough so that Taiwan remains independent. Personally I’m skeptical that this is so.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#84

Post by YorkshireSeason »

Leary wrote: post #75
tsuabing wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. The current Chinese government has never ruled over the island. Not to mention most Taiwanese currently support independence, especi…

Why does the Republic of China still claim mainland China?

This is an interesting question! Maintaining this claim seems crazy.

One interpretation is that Taiwan sees this as a bargaining chip with China, to be given up at an opportune moment, in exchange for something else, e.g. the China accepting Taiwan's independence.

However, more likely is that giving up on the claim to rule China, might trigger the China's anti-secession laws, which in turn would lead to an invasion on Taiwan.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#85

Post by Leary »

tsuabing wrote: post #76
Leary wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does Foxconn have its operations in Mainland China when it's a Taiwanese firm? Should I email them and convince them to move out of China?

So? Many other countries have factories in China. But now even Samsung has most production in Vietnam. I have no doubt Foxconn will move most of production out of China soon. Foxconn is investing heavily in India production. Yes, you should email Apple to tell them to move out of China.

Okay, who should I send my email to? Do you think customer service will work? Or do you think calling them is a better bet.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#86

Post by mistermann »

amaccuish wrote: post #12

> There is an ongoing discussion about China weaponizing tourism And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. It's an effective tatic. China isn't doing anything new that hasn't been done before.

> China isn't doing anything new that hasn't been done before.

If you drop sufficient detail from any comparison you can indeed come to such a conclusion, but it isn't an honest conclusion. In this case the detail that was dropped is the motive for engaging in the "same tactic", and in this case the motive is very different.

In my opinion, this style (discarding non-trivial details until two different scenarios can be declared ~identical) of reporting, in both formal mainstream print & media journalism as well as the more casual but still extremely influential late night talk shows, is what has caused such a large percentage of the public to hold opinions that do not line up very well with reality, and you can observe this in online discussions when people get very emotionally upset with those who disagree with them - they "know" something to be a fact, because they likely did in fact hear something very similar to what they believe reported in a serious news outlet. But if you ask them to provide any citations that include this extra detail (say, during a discussion over an instance of the story that does include the dropped details), unsurprisingly they are utterly incapable of finding any evidence. And rare is the case where the person in question be able to realize their mistake, and change their beliefs.

And if you fact check the media outlets on any of this, you'll almost always find that what they literally say is indeed factually true, it's just that they've dropped a whole bunch of context, resulting in their readers having a distorted understanding.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#87

Post by h4b4n3r0 »

tepidandroid wrote: post #82
h4b4n3r0 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the past 60 years of US Military action have made abundantly clear, even for the best military on the planet by quite a margin no war is “easy” to win. Now, granted, China won’t agonize about collateral damage the way we do, but even then it’s not “easy”, especially if you plan to take permanent control of the territory afterwards. For that to happen, the overwhelming majority of the country has to _want_ such con…

> Now, granted, China won’t agonize about collateral damage the way we do Please qualify this statement.

What’s there to qualify? You think they’ll worry as much about civilian casualties or use precision weapons?

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#88

Post by Waterluvian »

gerdesj wrote: post #58
Waterluvian wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditionally that parent has been the US. And like many parents they subscribe whole heartedly to, "do as I say, not as I do."

Traditionally that parent has been the US Your tradition seems to only go back a few decades.

That's fair. Maybe like.. cold war onwards.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#89

Post by YorkshireSeason »

Leary wrote: post #61
ballooney wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't buy stuff that's made in China, and optionally (but importantly) then email that CEO of the company whose stuff you decided not to buy that was made in China, explaining why. The dragon doesn't care what you say about it so long as it's still being fed.

Why does Foxconn have its operations in Mainland China when it's a Taiwanese firm? Should I email them and convince them to move out of China?

One of China's strategies for subverting Taiwanese democracy is to court Taiwan's elites: you are allowed to get very rich in China, as long as you agree with the one-China policy and increase ties with the mainland.

Rest assured that if Terry Gou were to promote Taiwanese independence, Foxconn would get into deep trouble quickly.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#90

Post by skh »

YorkshireSeason wrote: post #79
skh wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s possible to understand a perspective while not agreeing with it. When Chiang fled to Taiwan wasn’t Taiwan considered part of China? You can’t understand why the successors to the victors of the civil war in mainland China want to control Taiwan? There are now two Chinas. It’s understandable that some want there to be one China.

Chiang fled to Taiwan wasn’t Taiwan considered part of China? Taiwan had been under Japanese rule for 50 years. When Japan lost the war, Taiwan was governed by the Allied Powers, who appointed Chen Yi [1] from the Kuomintang (KMT) as chief executive and garrison commander of Taiwan Province [2]. The Peace Treaty with Japan (Treaty of San Francisco) [3] and the Sino-Japanese Peace Treaty (Treaty of Taipei) [4] both di…

What I meant was, didn’t the “Chinese people” (deliberately put in quotes) think of Taiwan as part of China? Japan took over Taiwan from China, didn’t it? As far as I know the PRC has always thought of Taiwan as part of China and I don’t think that will change soon. Thank you for the links.
Post reply on HN