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What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

reuters.com

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Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#51

Post by gerdesj »

gaoshan wrote: post #23
amaccuish wrote: post #12

> There is an ongoing discussion about China weaponizing tourism And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. It's an effective tatic. China isn't doing anything new that hasn't been done before.

I remember this basic "argument" from my childhood. After getting caught doing something of dubious moral value a child would say "Well everyone else is doing it". You knew it was wrong but you did it anyway and justified it by pointing out that "everyone else" did it. One of these days I'd love to see a grown up country come along and just do the good thing. Probably never happen since people are the same everywhere…

One of these days I'd love to see a grown up country come along and just do the good thing.

I like your parent/child allusion and who wouldn't? However, there is no parent available that could cuff the miscreant and make it all good. Besides: what exactly is "the good thing"?

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#52

Post by jacksproit »

enraged_camel wrote: post #45
ballooney wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't buy stuff that's made in China, and optionally (but importantly) then email that CEO of the company whose stuff you decided not to buy that was made in China, explaining why. The dragon doesn't care what you say about it so long as it's still being fed.

The dragon is not going to care about what the ants are doing. It will only care if other dragons start taking collective action. “Vote with your wallet” is bullshit.

Vote with your wallet is very effective with an educated populace.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#53

Post by mcculley »

antidesitter wrote: post #14
amaccuish wrote: post #12

> There is an ongoing discussion about China weaponizing tourism And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. It's an effective tatic. China isn't doing anything new that hasn't been done before.

> And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. Do you have more information about this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_...

The embargo is still in effect. I recently took a cruise to Havana. I was annoyed at the frequent reminders to those of us passengers who are US citizens about our restrictions on engaging in unallowed economic activity. Passengers who were not citizens of the Land of the Free have no such restrictions.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#54

Post by pishpash »

nabla9 wrote: post #15

Most of the world, including the UN, the US, EU, Japan, South Korea, India, Russia and practically everybody else is not formally recognizing Taiwan. Handful of small countries have still diplomatic relations with Taiwan, but I don't know what the significance is.

There is no significance. Taiwan gave them some money. Palau will be fine and certainly weighed which decision gives more money. These places go back and forth like churning credit card bonuses. China could pay every one of them more so that there are no countries recognizing Taiwan as the "one China" but why bother? They are left as chips to send a message when needed.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#55

Post by Waterluvian »

gerdesj wrote: post #51
gaoshan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember this basic "argument" from my childhood. After getting caught doing something of dubious moral value a child would say "Well everyone else is doing it". You knew it was wrong but you did it anyway and justified it by pointing out that "everyone else" did it. One of these days I'd love to see a grown up country come along and just do the good thing. Probably never happen since people are the same everywhere…

One of these days I'd love to see a grown up country come along and just do the good thing. I like your parent/child allusion and who wouldn't? However, there is no parent available that could cuff the miscreant and make it all good. Besides: what exactly is "the good thing"?

Traditionally that parent has been the US. And like many parents they subscribe whole heartedly to, "do as I say, not as I do."

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#56

Post by phkahler »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #49
amaccuish wrote: post #12

> There is an ongoing discussion about China weaponizing tourism And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. It's an effective tatic. China isn't doing anything new that hasn't been done before.

No. A) Cuba w/Soviets pointed nuclear missiles at the US. Iran's government perpetually declares they want to destroy the US. that's a tad offside compared to 'listing Taiwan as a country'. B) The US very very rarely controls where it's citizens can go. The moral/relative arguments used by the pro/defend China camp are tiring.

Have you noticed what's happening in the Puerto Rico? An actual US territory.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#57

Post by erk__ »

altcognito wrote: post #33
amaccuish wrote: post #12

> There is an ongoing discussion about China weaponizing tourism And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. It's an effective tatic. China isn't doing anything new that hasn't been done before.

The US claimed Cuba as a part of its territory?

Well they did lease the Guantánamo Bay, but the current goverment says that the lease is illegal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guant%C3%A1namo_Bay

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#58

Post by gerdesj »

Waterluvian wrote: post #55
gerdesj wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of these days I'd love to see a grown up country come along and just do the good thing. I like your parent/child allusion and who wouldn't? However, there is no parent available that could cuff the miscreant and make it all good. Besides: what exactly is "the good thing"?

Traditionally that parent has been the US. And like many parents they subscribe whole heartedly to, "do as I say, not as I do."

Traditionally that parent has been the US

Your tradition seems to only go back a few decades.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#59

Post by pishpash »

None of this is news, and the only reason it's now all over the place is probably because the State Department or some three lettered agencies gave a directive to ramp up the propaganda machine.

For those with longer memories, from 1949 to 1979, the US and most of the world denied that (the current) China existed and recognized Taiwan as China. The game has been played for decades now.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#60

Post by sonnyblarney »

graeme wrote: post #41
tsuabing wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. The current Chinese government has never ruled over the island. Not to mention most Taiwanese currently support independence, especi…

You are not in a strong position, unfortunately. The rest of the world broadly agrees that China and Taiwan are the same country. You don't have representation in the UN, or formal recognition from most countries. Your biggest advantage was economic. But China's growth means you are now tiny compared to them, and you have a reduced ability to pay other countries for diplomatic recognition. Unlike the poster you repli…

"The rest of the world broadly agrees that China and Taiwan are the same country."

No.

The 'rest of the world' basically accepts that China and Taiwan are different countries, and would recognize Taiwan in a heartbeat if it were not for diplomatic issues.

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