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What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

reuters.com

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Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#41

Post by graeme »

tsuabing wrote: post #13
skh wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that Taiwan will eventually merge with the mainland. Perhaps via the two-systems one China route that Hong Kong did. The claims of mainland China on Taiwan are understandable and I don't fault them for their perspective on the issue. Is the United States really willing to go to war with China over this? I don't think so. Are Thailand, Vietnam, Japan, South Korea, the Philippines willing to go to war with Ch…

I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. The current Chinese government has never ruled over the island. Not to mention most Taiwanese currently support independence, especi…

You are not in a strong position, unfortunately. The rest of the world broadly agrees that China and Taiwan are the same country. You don't have representation in the UN, or formal recognition from most countries.

Your biggest advantage was economic. But China's growth means you are now tiny compared to them, and you have a reduced ability to pay other countries for diplomatic recognition.

Unlike the poster you replied to, I think this is deeply unfortunate, and deplore the fact that China wishes to gradually take you over. But, the strategic outlook is bleak: your western allies share of world GDP and military power shrinks every year, and the US has turned fickle. China meanwhile outpaces your growth every year, and is getting more and more power over countries that neighbour you.

I don't think it would ever be an invasion, but rather a slow strangling, and a carrot of union offered. And it would be a long term project.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#43

Post by knuththetruth »

altcognito wrote: post #33
amaccuish wrote: post #12

> There is an ongoing discussion about China weaponizing tourism And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. It's an effective tatic. China isn't doing anything new that hasn't been done before.

The US claimed Cuba as a part of its territory?

More or less, actually:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish%E2%80%93American_War

EDIT: Sorry about...history, I guess?

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#44

Post by tomohawk »

amaccuish wrote: post #12

> There is an ongoing discussion about China weaponizing tourism And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. It's an effective tatic. China isn't doing anything new that hasn't been done before.

Cuba's communist government nationalized property from people and corporations without any compensation.

It still illegally holds these properties today.

The communist Cuban government acceded to hosting Soviet nuclear missiles pointed at the US. This almost caused a nuclear war.

The US embargo was based on these and many other things.

It is hardly a comparable situation.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#45

Post by enraged_camel »

ballooney wrote: post #19
ericjang wrote: post #2

Hypothetically speaking, if one is opposed to some or all aspects of the "One China" doctrine, what can one do locally/globally to effect change? Or is the annexation of Taiwan a near-certainty via the forces of economics?

Don't buy stuff that's made in China, and optionally (but importantly) then email that CEO of the company whose stuff you decided not to buy that was made in China, explaining why. The dragon doesn't care what you say about it so long as it's still being fed.

The dragon is not going to care about what the ants are doing. It will only care if other dragons start taking collective action.

“Vote with your wallet” is bullshit.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#46

Post by canhascodez »

graeme wrote: post #41
tsuabing wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Taiwanese millienial and I am deeply offended by this comment. Why would you say that the claim is understandable? ? Taiwan has been an independent democratic country with its own military, economy, culture, government, rules of law, and international relations for over 50 years. The current Chinese government has never ruled over the island. Not to mention most Taiwanese currently support independence, especi…

You are not in a strong position, unfortunately. The rest of the world broadly agrees that China and Taiwan are the same country. You don't have representation in the UN, or formal recognition from most countries. Your biggest advantage was economic. But China's growth means you are now tiny compared to them, and you have a reduced ability to pay other countries for diplomatic recognition. Unlike the poster you repli…

In what sense are Taiwan and China the same country? China has acted as a bully to deny the independent status of Taiwan, but I have no idea why you think that they don't have the right to self-determination.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#47

Post by graeme »

canhascodez wrote: post #46
graeme wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not in a strong position, unfortunately. The rest of the world broadly agrees that China and Taiwan are the same country. You don't have representation in the UN, or formal recognition from most countries. Your biggest advantage was economic. But China's growth means you are now tiny compared to them, and you have a reduced ability to pay other countries for diplomatic recognition. Unlike the poster you repli…

In what sense are Taiwan and China the same country? China has acted as a bully to deny the independent status of Taiwan, but I have no idea why you think that they don't have the right to self-determination.

In the "do other countries recognize Taiwan as a country" sense. Generally speaking, the answer is that they don't.

That means Taiwan's independence is only de facto, not de jure, and that is a very bad thing for Taiwan's prospects. Particularly in a world where China now has much more economic power than Taiwan.

I'm not talking about "right". Like I said, I think Taiwan should be independent. But, I'm not optimistic about that continuing to be the case over the long run. China seems to really, really want it, and to be patient about it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-China_policy

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#48

Post by [deleted] »

tomohawk wrote: post #44
amaccuish wrote: post #12

> There is an ongoing discussion about China weaponizing tourism And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. It's an effective tatic. China isn't doing anything new that hasn't been done before.

Cuba's communist government nationalized property from people and corporations without any compensation. It still illegally holds these properties today. The communist Cuban government acceded to hosting Soviet nuclear missiles pointed at the US. This almost caused a nuclear war. The US embargo was based on these and many other things. It is hardly a comparable situation.

[deleted]

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#49

Post by sonnyblarney »

amaccuish wrote: post #12

> There is an ongoing discussion about China weaponizing tourism And America tried the same tatic with Cuba and many other countries. It's an effective tatic. China isn't doing anything new that hasn't been done before.

No.

A) Cuba w/Soviets pointed nuclear missiles at the US. Iran's government perpetually declares they want to destroy the US. that's a tad offside compared to 'listing Taiwan as a country'.

B) The US very very rarely controls where it's citizens can go.

The moral/relative arguments used by the pro/defend China camp are tiring.

Re: What happens when a Pacific island upsets China

#50

Post by sonnyblarney »

nickserv wrote: post #40
altcognito wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US claimed Cuba as a part of its territory?

Nobody is claiming Palau. The point is that China has effectively embargoed Palau, similar to the US embargo on Cuba following their revolution.

It's not remotely 'similar'.

One is from a minor diplomatic dispute.

The other arose from a nuclear standoff that was the closest we ever came to starting World War 3 and therefore the destruction of all human life as we know it.

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