Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on social acceptance • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on social acceptance

#91

Post by MrLeap » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 6:06 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #88

MrLeap wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misinterpret me, I'm not asking what the world needs, I'm asking what it's possible to give them for profit. If wondering if we could create a social network that offers 50x the social validation (fentanyl is like 50x the potency of heroin). Maybe machine learning can find the right combination of color flashes to cause people to have a social bliss seizure. Maybe while simultaneously reading their rapid eye move…

If something like this was possible, wouldn't Facebook have already discovered it?

I sort of assumed that's why the bought oculus, but no, not necessarily.

To believe otherwise is to fall into the trap the economist does in the following folksy anecdote.

An economist and his friend were walking down the street when the friend spots a 100$ bill on the ground. "Hey look, a 100$ bill!" he exclaims. The economist keeps his eyes locked forward, saying "Can't be, if there were - someone would have already picked it up."

Believe in yourself and your dreams, Cyph0n.

Re: Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on social acceptance

#92

Post by mindgam3 » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 6:17 PM UTC

MrLeap wrote: post #84

mindgam3 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cute, but your analogy is somewhat flawed as fentanyl is like heroin on steroids. (As long as we’re mixing metaphors...) What the world really needs is the naloxone of social networks.

You misinterpret me, I'm not asking what the world needs, I'm asking what it's possible to give them for profit. If wondering if we could create a social network that offers 50x the social validation (fentanyl is like 50x the potency of heroin). Maybe machine learning can find the right combination of color flashes to cause people to have a social bliss seizure. Maybe while simultaneously reading their rapid eye move…

See, your attitude is exactly what is wrong with Silicon Valley culture. You’re joking about technology to give people social bliss seizures for profit, hahaha hilarious. Meanwhile millions of people are actually dying from addiction, and not just heroin.

A member of my immediate family died by suicide recently. She suffered from massive self esteem issues as a result of chronic childhood abuse. She turned to Facebook for social validation, as one does, but was more prone to serious addiction due to her trauma. I’m not saying Facebook killed her, but it certainly added rocket fuel to the fire of her downward spiral.

I encourage you to reconsider your glib attitude towards dangerous addictions. It’s not so funny when people you love die from this stuff.

Re: Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on social acceptance

#93

Post by austincheney » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

s-shellfish wrote: post #82

austincheney wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I agree with you right here and now, have we not technically formed our own 'echo chamber'? Good point, but no. Agreement is not necessarily an indication of conformance. You have to also consider to what degree that agreement, or disagreement, must be exercised. I agree and disagree with many political opinions, but I don't join groups who share my political opinions. My personal opinions often remain personal.…

> In math and logic agreement is attained by a proof. Of course I agree with this. Just makes me think of bad ways of understanding math and logic. Having to carry it around inside myself as though I am it, because nothing else besides myself, others like myself, and actual computers can test the understanding. Proofs can be written with the utmost rigor. There's still room for error. No proof is perfect. I'm not sur…

> Having to carry it around inside myself as though I am it, because nothing else besides myself, others like myself, and actual computers can test the understanding.

I think that is an overly simplistic view. Perhaps the way to think about this is not an isolated fragment in the form of an abstraction but rather a product you can hold your in hands. You can test your understanding of that product in various ways and use it perform various tasks beyond which it was designed to achieve. These processes require problem solving and creativity which are forms of originality. Originality is a very lonely place, but its great when it solves a problem and reveals a reward. What is the greater virtue: solving for loneliness or solving for the problem?

This is better explained in the introduction to Nicomachean Ethics. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%...

Essentially a tool is of use for its own sake, an intermediate use, or existing solely for the use of something else. That which is of use for its own sake has the highest utility value while that which is only existent to benefit something else has the lowest utility value.

It seems, though, your thoughts are more concerning potential unity around theoretical concepts. For that I recommend reading upon Intellectual Virtue as an achievable ethic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicomachean_Ethics#Book_VI:_In...

Re: Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on social acceptance

#94

Post by sandov » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

prolikewh0a wrote: post #52

bdz wrote: post #14

Social media is the new smoking. Cancer destroys you physically but these sites destroy your mental health. Not just Facebook but Instagram too for example, it's even worse. And don't forget Twitter.

The "withdrawal" of them is bad too. You're essentially forced to create a new friend base because a lot of people just won't participate in a real meaningful friendship outside of Facebook. It's like you're not a person if you're not on some form of social media. I still type reddit.com into my browser just from muscle memory now 6-ish months after quitting.

I typed "fa"[enter] into the adress bar for a couple of weeks after quitting facebook, only to remember that I had quit.

First I felt empty, like I needed to log in, " just to see". Now, I know it was an excellent decision, I feel better and more content.

Re: Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on social acceptance

#95

Post by kazinator » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 6:29 PM UTC

hardwaresofton wrote: post #20

The way this is titled makes the relation seem directional, and in the wrong direction... Basing self worth on social acceptance definitely predates Facebook, and Facebook addiction is a pretty obvious consequence of the positive feedback loop that you'd get form using Facebook to feed that part of yourself. Not defending Facebook or any other social network here, I personally think Facebook is likely toxic -- but I…

"A linked to B" is a bidirectional relationship that means "B linked to A". Any interpretation of a direction is purely imaginary.

Horse linked to carriage.

Carriage linked to horse.

Use of the word "link" at all is a often big clue which says "we're careful not to assert a causal mechanism".

Re: Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on social acceptance

#96

Post by paulie_a » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 6:33 PM UTC

I actually had a discussion today about someone considering whether they should say "Happy birthday" because that other person didn't do that previously.

Finally my response was "who gives a shit, it's Facebook, it doesn't fucking matter. Just unfriend her instead of bitching about it."

That didn't resonate very well and the person had a very sullen attitude. but I stand by my statement. Facebook isn't that important.

Re: Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on social acceptance

#97

Post by zebraflask » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 6:35 PM UTC

hardwaresofton wrote: post #20

The way this is titled makes the relation seem directional, and in the wrong direction... Basing self worth on social acceptance definitely predates Facebook, and Facebook addiction is a pretty obvious consequence of the positive feedback loop that you'd get form using Facebook to feed that part of yourself. Not defending Facebook or any other social network here, I personally think Facebook is likely toxic -- but I…

Facebook is categorically toxic at this point.

Re: Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on social acceptance

#98

Post by hw » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 6:42 PM UTC

hardwaresofton wrote: post #20

The way this is titled makes the relation seem directional, and in the wrong direction... Basing self worth on social acceptance definitely predates Facebook, and Facebook addiction is a pretty obvious consequence of the positive feedback loop that you'd get form using Facebook to feed that part of yourself. Not defending Facebook or any other social network here, I personally think Facebook is likely toxic -- but I…

I wonder what happens if you remove the positive feedback loop - allow users to post and share, but remove likes, shares, comments, number of followers/friends and other 'vanity' metrics. Or, allow likes and shares but don't expose the numbers to the OP. Would a person still share or post on social networks as much as they do right now? I think that person's answer to that would suggest whether or not they use Facebook or social networks as a means for self validation.

Re: Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on social acceptance

#99

Post by DenisM » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 7:00 PM UTC

MrLeap wrote: post #84

mindgam3 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cute, but your analogy is somewhat flawed as fentanyl is like heroin on steroids. (As long as we’re mixing metaphors...) What the world really needs is the naloxone of social networks.

You misinterpret me, I'm not asking what the world needs, I'm asking what it's possible to give them for profit. If wondering if we could create a social network that offers 50x the social validation (fentanyl is like 50x the potency of heroin). Maybe machine learning can find the right combination of color flashes to cause people to have a social bliss seizure. Maybe while simultaneously reading their rapid eye move…

The answer is sort of yes, digital fentanyl is in our future. It’s a simple ML model that tells you what you want to hear based on your previous reactions and cross-person prior training data. Whatever your hidden insecurities are, that’s where it will bind. Once it becomes variative enough to keep you on your toes and precise enough to strike in yout heart you will no longer care that’s it obviously failing the Turing test.

Otherwise fully functional adults often succumb to sexual advances of sweet-taking suitors even if they rationally know the sweet-talk is bunk. And so it will be with this - humanity will fall to an AI before the AI can even develop consciousness.

Re: Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on social acceptance

#100

Post by themagician » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 7:11 PM UTC

Social media wasn’t always like this. I think back to the ways I used Twitter, Facebook and Instagram in the early days and they were completely different than they way they are used today. They were personal, real time, and no one cared about “likes”.

I think a lot of the problems with social media today could be solved just by removing “the numbers.” If suddenly all the like, follower, following, and comment counts disappeared I suspect people would use these things fundamentally differently. I see people browsing through IG tapping to like for 20 minutes at a time and think to myself, “why are you even doing that?” It’s a compulsion that does nothing.