Brazil sets new record for homicides • Hacker News Board

Re: Brazil sets new record for homicides

#191

Post by lhorie » Sun, Aug 19, 2018, 2:53 AM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #190

lhorie wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said guns would not change the situation, but I do believe they would make things worse. When was the last time you've heard of a gun-wielding vigilante saving the day in the US? Was he in his car with his family getting robbed by 3 teenagers at a stop light? I lived in Brazil and I've been robbed and I've witnessed people being shot in gang fights, and I don't see how having a gun on me would've helped, so f…

This happened in Brazil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VThEm-UhFIs I suspect that the reason you don't hear about a "gun-wielding vigilante saving the day in the US" has more to do with the media sources you consume. Here is a scholarly article detailing how common defensive gun use is in the United States: https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewconten... Estimates range from 100,000 to 2.5 million.…

I could also show a bunch of cases where someone reacted and died. We could be cherrypicking stories to the end of times, even.

At the end of the day, while it's easy to say you yourself could've protected yourself (because macho power amirite?), it takes borderline sociopathic composition for someone to say with a straight face that their mother should not only carry a gun but also react to a robbery and shoot a living person if the situation calls for it.

> It's entirely possible for the average citizen

The average salary in Brazil is like $700 per month. You'd have to be quite privileged indeed to be able to afford something as extravagant as shooting classes.

Re: Brazil sets new record for homicides

#192

Post by malandrew » Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:59 AM UTC

lhorie wrote: post #191

malandrew wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happened in Brazil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VThEm-UhFIs I suspect that the reason you don't hear about a "gun-wielding vigilante saving the day in the US" has more to do with the media sources you consume. Here is a scholarly article detailing how common defensive gun use is in the United States: https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewconten... Estimates range from 100,000 to 2.5 million.…

I could also show a bunch of cases where someone reacted and died. We could be cherrypicking stories to the end of times, even. At the end of the day, while it's easy to say you yourself could've protected yourself (because macho power amirite?), it takes borderline sociopathic composition for someone to say with a straight face that their mother should not only carry a gun but also react to a robbery and shoot a liv…

People earning $700 a month aren't the people who are getting mugged on a regular basis. You can't even pull out your cell phone in many places.

Furthermore, I didn't even advocate for someone's mother to carry again. That's a weak strawman.

I'm advocating for responsible citizens to be allowed to purchase a gun for self defense. Not everyone needs one. The overwhelming majority don't need one and shouldn't be carrying one. Just a small minority of responsible gun owners that take time to train themselves in how to use their firearm would go a long way to acting as a deterrent. Register them. Require training. Whatever is necessary to ensure responsible people can carry them or at least keep them in their own home.

Many of my friends have been robbed at gunpoint in Brazil, including my girlfriend who was robbed about 1-2 years ago. The situation is completely out of control.

Here's another one from Brazil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S7SPrb6oj4

This kind of defensive gun use should be permitted.

Também, pare de tentar me educar sobre o meu próprio país.

Re: Brazil sets new record for homicides

#193

Post by lhorie » Mon, Aug 20, 2018, 5:38 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #192

lhorie wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could also show a bunch of cases where someone reacted and died. We could be cherrypicking stories to the end of times, even. At the end of the day, while it's easy to say you yourself could've protected yourself (because macho power amirite?), it takes borderline sociopathic composition for someone to say with a straight face that their mother should not only carry a gun but also react to a robbery and shoot a liv…

People earning $700 a month aren't the people who are getting mugged on a regular basis. You can't even pull out your cell phone in many places. Furthermore, I didn't even advocate for someone's mother to carry again. That's a weak strawman. I'm advocating for responsible citizens to be allowed to purchase a gun for self defense. Not everyone needs one. The overwhelming majority don't need one and shouldn't be carryi…

> People earning $700 a month aren't the people who are getting mugged

Oh, but they do. Ask your housekeeper, your kid's teacher or if you want to be statistical, literally any random person on the street. Everyone I've ever talked to, from all walks of life, has a first-hand story or knows someone who does. To be fair, my experience is mostly from the Sao Paulo/ABCD area. Maybe things are not that bad outside of Sao Paulo and Rio, and if so, good for them.

> Também, pare de tentar me educar sobre o meu próprio país

If I came across that way, I apologize. That was not my intention.

I feel like it's fine to wish to have one more tool at your disposal if you are responsible and a financially well enough to get a gun for self-defense, but I also feel that it won't really help in the grand scheme of things, for the same reason that having a switchblade in your pocket is not the greatest idea right now. I knew a burly someone who was with his just-as-burly cop dad during a bank robbery. They -along with 30 other people- did not react, and later when he asked his dad why, his response was "well aren't you glad to be alive now". Maybe there are cases where a gun can help, but there are also cases where it won't and cases where legal gun ownership might just become another avenue for guns to get into wrong hands. There are an overwhelming number of cases where you just don't know what will happen. I'm not convinced pro-gun-ownership laws are going to be a net positive, precisely because things are so out of control, as you said yourself. You disagree, and that's fine.

> The overwhelming majority don't need one and shouldn't be carrying one.

Personally, with the idea in mind that I wanted to protect myself and not necessarily worry or care about the vast majority of the population, I took a route that I believe is far more effective to protect myself and completely orthogonal to the possibility that my political view might make things worse for those 200M+ people: I left Brazil.