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The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic randomly

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Re: The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic randomly

#101

Post by MBCook »

pertymcpert wrote: post #95

Why is the T2 panic any worse than a normal panic? It's a bug, they happen. And before someone says that they're only needed for the Touch Bar, a) they chose to buy the Touch Bar version, and b) T2 and future chips will handle much more.

The T2 DOES handle much more. Last year’s T1 only handled the touchbar and fingerprint sensor.

The T2 is also the storage controller, disk encryption, and I think runs all the system management/thermal stuff.

Why is this any different from any other kernel panic? It probably isn’t. But the design is more complicated than it was last year and lots of people already dislike the existence of the Touch Bar and everything connected to it, so I can see them latching onto this is proof that that was a mistake.

Re: The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic randomly

#102

Post by jhdsrt »

pertymcpert wrote: post #95

Why is the T2 panic any worse than a normal panic? It's a bug, they happen. And before someone says that they're only needed for the Touch Bar, a) they chose to buy the Touch Bar version, and b) T2 and future chips will handle much more.

> Why is the T2 panic any worse than a normal panic? It's a bug, they happen.

They do happen. They shouldn't. No matter what subsystem causes the kernel panic I don't see why you would think they are acceptable. However, a problem with T2 is worse than other subsystems because...

> And before someone says that they're only needed for the Touch Bar, a) they chose to buy the Touch Bar version, and b) T2 and future chips will handle much more.

Exactly. T2 is supposed to work as a secure enclave, for instance (see https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862). Any bug (especially one causing a kernel crash) related to the T2 chip is potentially a privilege escalation bug, with the potential to enable direct (after decryption) disk access outside of os access control, or the possibility to work around secure boot and boot non-signed kernels, or other problems.

The T2 chip is becoming a critical part of the security infrastructure for macs/mac os and any bug related to it should be taken very seriously.

Re: The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic randomly

#103

Post by freedomben »

dfox wrote: post #89
whytaka wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time and time again, I cannot believe people recommend a company that installed spyware in their hardware. I will never ever buy a Lenovo. It doesn't matter that it didn't affect the ThinkPad line.

You should take into consideration that for both IdeaPad (the superfish one) and ThinkPad Lenovo is not much more than brand. These two lines are designed and manufactured by completely separate corporations. What is somewhat funny in this regard is that the real maker of modern ThinkPads (probably at least since introduction of the letter-number nomenclature) is Acer/Wistron with Acer as a brand being mostly known f…

I was completely unaware that Acer made ThinkPads, and that blows my mind. A quick google was not able to confirm that, which is not unexpected since that sort of rebranding is usually hushed. Do you have a source? Not saying you need one, but wondering if you already have one. Would be interested to read more. I've had a really bad opinion of Acers since buying one a decade ago, and currently have a high opinion of Thinkpads (and am typing on a 2018 model right now).

Re: The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic randomly

#104

Post by freedomben »

wvh wrote: post #22
tbrock wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get a ThinkPad X1 Carbon 6th gen with Arch Linux or Fedora. Forget CentOS.

My advice as well – I'm running Arch Linux on a ThinkPad. Debian (unstable) or a recent Ubuntu version might work pretty well too. CentOS follows RedHat Enterprise Linux and has way too old software for modern desktop use (unless they have a branch hidden somewhere I'm not aware of). Running old Linux versions on new laptops is going to be a frustrating experience; ideally all the device drivers you need are mainline…

I very much agree that CentOS will not be a good laptop/desktop experience. I have tried it, will not again.

If you like Red Hat stuff (which I do), install Fedora 28. It's on my Thinkpad right now, and works flawless.

Re: The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic randomly

#105

Post by swaggyBoatswain »

cygned wrote: post #2

Holding off buying a new MacBook Pro at the moment. It’s like issues pop up every other week and I simply cannot buy a machine that is not reliable. Also looking into a Lenovo Thinkpad w/ CentOS as an alternative, even though it would be difficult. It’s a pity.

Buy a 2015 macbook pro, its the last one without any issues, superior keyboard, legacy ports as well. Smaller more compact touchpad as well

The only downside is it is only thunderbolt 2, and they recently went away with external GPU support for new macOS updates.

I paid $1500 for mine in practically brand new mint condition on amazon, buying a new a 2018 version was $2500 roughly for something that also had 512 GB SSD.

I find the macbookpro has way better ergonomic features than windows laptops. Also, programming environment is just so much nicer IMO on mac.

Re: The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic randomly

#106

Post by 9935c101ab17a66 »

threeseed wrote: post #52
satysin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it is horrible how you can't repair or replace anything but it does work so damn well and I have had so much hassle with other laptops that I just thought fuck it and went with the MBP. I had a Surface Book 2 which was one of the worst laptop experiences I have had in the past decade and it was close to the MBP in price. Microsoft waaaay over-engineered the Surface Book just to be unique yet still don't have the…

You can get third party parts for your MacBook and replace them yourself. And there are detailed guides from iFixit about how exactly to do it.

It's technically possible, but they don't seem to have a tonne of parts available, especially for the new models (2016 onwards). Also, pretty much every component is soldered to the logic board (memory, ssd) with a few small exceptions, and the computers can be more difficult to open.

Re: The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic randomly

#107

Post by natch »

The comments the user typed into the Problem Report screen are not constructive.

I think that comments field would be better used for entering any possibly relevant information the user might be able to provide. For example: what was the computer, or the user, doing before the point of the panic. I'm not saying the user has a strict duty to enter information... just that it's a good idea to add some valuable information if you can. The information doesn't need to be perfect or complete. Apple aggregates information from different users' reports and every bit (well most of it) helps.

Apple is engaged in a huge ongoing long project to make their stuff better and better for their users. It's not ever going to be easy, given the ever increasing complexity in the world. We can help, or we can cheer them on, or we can hate on them or whine when they fail. I vote for helping when we can.

Re: The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic randomly

#108

Post by eikenberry »

morganvachon wrote: post #76
viraptor wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost every larger company these days has done something bad like that. Lenovo had superfish, HP had a keylogger, Dell had its own superfish, Acer still installs search toolbars and browser hijackers, depending on how far back you want to go Sony had the BMG rootkit and a camera backdoor, ... Who are you going to get your laptop from now of you ignore all of those - especially if you're going to reinstall your OS im…

> Who are you going to get your laptop from now of you ignore all of those - especially if you're going to reinstall your OS immediately anyway? Clevo. They are a whitebox laptop manufacturer so you will find they are OEM for several smaller brands like MSI, Sager, and others. Yes they are Chinese market, but every laptop is made in China these days, even the big American names, so that part is unavoidable. If that t…

Clevo's hardware is not that great though. I've known several people get System76 Clevo systems and they've all been disappointed. I'm hopeful for System76's new systems, that they will up the quality significantly and make them compare-able to Thinkpads.

Re: The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic randomly

#109

Post by huebnerob »

It's long past time for the tech world to start realizing that their anecdotal evidence is not valid. Every single tiny glitch some person with a Twitter experiences doesn't warrant a fucking XYZgate level media blitz.

@Apple @timcook my phone's battery discharged a little fast today. WHY ARE YOU HIDING FROM THE TRUTH ON THIS??? #draingate

In a later reply, guy cited a Apple discussion thread as his empirical proof. Do you know what, yes, even a thirty page, forum thread is compared to Apple's daily sales? A rounding error.

Re: The new MacBook Pros with T2 chips do indeed kernel panic randomly

#110

Post by 4di »

swaggyBoatswain wrote: post #105
cygned wrote: post #2

Holding off buying a new MacBook Pro at the moment. It’s like issues pop up every other week and I simply cannot buy a machine that is not reliable. Also looking into a Lenovo Thinkpad w/ CentOS as an alternative, even though it would be difficult. It’s a pity.

Buy a 2015 macbook pro, its the last one without any issues, superior keyboard, legacy ports as well. Smaller more compact touchpad as well The only downside is it is only thunderbolt 2, and they recently went away with external GPU support for new macOS updates. I paid $1500 for mine in practically brand new mint condition on amazon, buying a new a 2018 version was $2500 roughly for something that also had 512 GB SS…

Yeah my laptop of choice is 15" MB Pro mid-2015. Picked up 2 of them over the last couple of years from Apple's refurbished store and I think with OS X it really is still one of the best laptops out there. A little tip - you can use https://refurb-tracker.com/ to get alerts when they get in stock.

TBH it's the MB Pro + OS X combo that works so well. MB Pro + Windows is definitely sub-par... lot of other great laptops for that. I've never tried Linux on a MB Pro.

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