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What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

freemovement.org.uk

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Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#91
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to give examples of good leaders in the Middle East? Keep in mind that the only countries in MENA that currently have a democratically elected leader are Tunisia and Lebanon.

What about Israel?

I was thinking about MENA from an Arab/Muslim point of view, but technically you are right.

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#92

I speak as an immigrant. I see a lot of comments not being too kind to people who aren't welcoming of immigrants. As a person, I actually do understand. Not everyone is going to like me. As an African I do wish some of this energy would be directed to the African leaders that make their countries so terrible that someone feels it is better to jump on a rickety boat in search of a better life. These African "leaders"…

Exactly similar thing in india. This is happened with all indian Brahmins settled in United States. Top on the caste ladder, denied education to other castes and when british conquered india and gave education to other castes they started to move to united states, the Brahmins who are staying in india have missed that chance and can not compete now as other castes are competing too.

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#93
post #20

This is par for the course in the UK right now. The Tories have been pandering to the xenophobes and racists for some time now an their "hostile environment" for immigrants isn't restricted to ones who are doing something illegal, instead it seems to be targeted toward making life miserable, if not impossible for any immigrants wether they're doing the right thing or not. They have no problems breaking their own rule…

I find it strange how so often the failures in some low-level bureaucratic system or law enforcement agency, whose failures have existed and were alive well before these 'xenophobe' politicians were ever a thing, gets blamed on some abstract shift in ideology of a small group of politicians. As if all new popular ideas instantly trickle down to all government policy... and everything is to blame on that.

How do you explain these kafkaesque failures of immigration systems around the world in countries without a small group of xenophobes in parliament?

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#94
post #89

It shouldn't be this hard in the first place... Want a strong country? Let anyone who puts 50,000 of your currency in a local bank and has a college degree stay there. I shouldn't need 250K and have a business plan, or 2 million pounds to invest. I certainly shouldn't have to bond myself to a corporation or get married to be allowed to live there and pay taxes. Ban me from public government benefits for 5 years until…

Some countries are starting to buck the trend; most notably Canada with Express Entry.

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#95
post #71
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No doubt there are terrible leaders, but experience in the middle east has shown it's no just terrible leaders standing in the way of prosperity.

Care to give examples of good leaders in the Middle East? Keep in mind that the only countries in MENA that currently have a democratically elected leader are Tunisia and Lebanon.

My point was that getting rid of some of the terrible leaders did not solve any problems, indeed made things worse by most measures. Tribalism and perhaps worse - the rule of violence leads to bad leaders. I imagine even good people would have to be bad to stay on top in those societies.

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#96
post #50
post #20

This is par for the course in the UK right now. The Tories have been pandering to the xenophobes and racists for some time now an their "hostile environment" for immigrants isn't restricted to ones who are doing something illegal, instead it seems to be targeted toward making life miserable, if not impossible for any immigrants wether they're doing the right thing or not. They have no problems breaking their own rule…

Look at this poll: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/docume... The voters of all parties support these policies. What is "pandering" in a democracy? The people are xenophobes, they are getting what they want.

This raises an interesting question: what happens to a democratic society when "the will of the people" embraces principles and ideas that are profoundly anti-democratic?

I mean, it's hard to find a definition of "democracy" that would satisfy everyone but, intuitively, xenophobia and open hostility to visitors who clearly mean well and are contributing to the well-being of the community (Lucas was a Cambridge alumnus and in employment when his adventures started) seems to run counter to every reasonable interpretation of "democratic".

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#97
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to give examples of good leaders in the Middle East? Keep in mind that the only countries in MENA that currently have a democratically elected leader are Tunisia and Lebanon.

It may be even more fundamental: Good leaders emerge from a good democracy. Maybe what the Middle East needs is to copy from the constitutions of successful democracies. Even adopting just our First Amendment would be a decent start.

Democracy isn’t always the best form of government for a given population. I think all attempts to force it that have blown up are a good demonstration of this. It depends a lot on the culture, the would be leaders, etc. It should be emergent and home-grown, not exported.

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#98

"Indefinite leave to remain" sounds like some almost Orwellian concoction of meaninglessness to me. How exactly do you get from "permission to stay in the country" (aha, it means one has the permission to stay in the country) to "indefinite leave to remain" (uhm... to remain here, I need to leave indefinitely?)

Can you lose indefinite leave to remain like you can lose permanent residency in US/Canada if you don't live there for a certain period?

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#99
post #14

Anti-immigration people in various countries often argue that they just want to prevent “bad ones” coming in, they’re not looking to throw out the “good ones”. The reality is that there’s no leniency for perceived good immigrants as these people imagine, and it’s just getting worse as immigration policies are tightened across Europe. Officials are under pressure to refuse as many applications as they can, and it’s ea…

There are plenty of gov agencies where 95+% of the time they deal with 'bad' people that they become very ill equipped (or mentally unprepared) to deal with the odd 'good' one when they come by. So the whole system becomes a cynical exercise, as they get so deluged with people forever fighting to game the system that they forget that good honest people still get forced through their meat grinder. Or they simply suck at 'customer service' like the classic DMV-worker cliches.

These are often failures of systems rather than some high-level racism or xenophobia by politicians. As they exist in a variety of agencies across every western countries, even the super liberal ones.

The problem is a hard one to solve, as the operations of these agencies often gets left on the wayside, regardless of national debates. This lawyer in the article is dealing with the lowest tier, not-giving-a-shit type of government workers, who are likely underfunded, poorly staffed, with plenty of pressure on both ends - just like most gov agencies. That is a system detached from the latest populist outrage.

Remember this whole story started by the guy getting the wrong 'form' when he applied. I'm sure plenty of conservatives would be interested in fixing this particular failure and having a more efficient (and accurate) immigration system.

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#100

While the Home Office in UK was vigorously trying its best to throw Lucas out, the same Home Office in UK is trying its best to keep economic offenders like Vijay Mallya and Lalit Modi from being deported: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/28/india-asks-brita... "The Home Office said the suspension of Mr Mallya's passport was a matter for Indian authorities and declined to comment on the individual case, citin…

"its best", not "it's best"
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