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What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

freemovement.org.uk

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Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#41

Post by vidarh »

personjerry wrote: post #3

I don’t think the government did anything wrong; The rules aren’t meant to be bent, and if Lucas made a mistake in filing the wrong paperwork, it absolutely makes sense for the consequences to follow. In these serious legal matters, you need to seek counsel. This article attempts to paint a picture of the poor child, but the law was clear, and any emotional appeal should be invalid.

The judge disagreed with you, and because the Home Office chose to treat it this way instead of treating it more reasonable it wasted tens of thousands of pounds of taxpayer money and reduced its tax revenues.

> This article attempts to paint a picture of the poor child, but the law was clear, and any emotional appeal should be invalid.

If the law is so clear, one would think the Home Office wouldn't have treated him this way only for a judge to find he should have another chance, nor presumably, would the Home Office have wrongly claimed a rule that does exist doesn't exist.

When the Home Office itself fails to get this right, it is completely unreasonable to assume that applicants will.

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#42

Post by Havoc »

caiob wrote: post #17

Is there something about English-speaking countries that make them behave like dicks when it comes to immigration?

Others aren't much better frankly. The German process was pretty much "Sit tight, don't ask for updates...oh and it may take 2 years" (It did).

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#43

Post by ppod »

I moved to the UK seven years ago, and have clearly noticed a change in the time I've been here. It wasn't perfect to begin with, but there is now a clear popular attitude against non-British people. It's worse against non-white people and eastern europeans, but there is also a level of general xenophobia. Of course, this is not the prevailing situation in London and cosmopolitan cities, but it is prevalent among the electorate, and the government and civil service is slowly starting to reflect that preference.

I know people living in London will read this and claim it isn't true, but remember I'm talking about the country as a whole. Immigration is consistently ranked as the most important issue in opinion polls, and a large majority favour admitting "none" or "a few" from most countries. https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/uk...

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#44

Post by duxup »

pavlov wrote: post #14

Anti-immigration people in various countries often argue that they just want to prevent “bad ones” coming in, they’re not looking to throw out the “good ones”. The reality is that there’s no leniency for perceived good immigrants as these people imagine, and it’s just getting worse as immigration policies are tightened across Europe. Officials are under pressure to refuse as many applications as they can, and it’s ea…

In the US they explicitly have stopped targeting those with serious criminal violations in favor of whomever they come across.

If anything that would seem to mean fewer resources are dedicated to serious criminal situations in favor of the low hanging fruit of someone with a current address and some minor issue years ago....

Effectively this seems to be the opposite of targeting serious criminals.

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#45

Post by comex »

Someone1234 wrote: post #22

I have experience with both the UK and US immigration systems. I agree, it is very easy with how complicated the processes can be to make mistakes, even seemingly big ones, just by misunderstanding a single requirement. Even non-immigration lawyers make serious errors. > Lucas made his application for naturalisation on 14 May 2014, a couple of weeks before the expiry of his visa. I'm playing devil's advocate here, bu…

> Essentially the article is complaining that the other applicants that applied before him were processed before him.

Only if you assume that the Home Office's capacity is fixed. I don't know any of the details myself, but presumably they could have avoided creating such long backlog by hiring more employees.

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#46

Post by ConfSibi »

There are legitimate and rational reasons for not wanting a large influx of poor immigrants into a developed nation.

Using the US as an example, in the 1800's and early-to-mid 1900's, American work was largely labor intensive agricultural and factory based work. Labor was in huge demand, and as a result the middle class was able to thrive. Today that is no longer the case, and a massive rift between rich and poor is developing as the middle class collapses without an economic foundation to support its existence, this being the labor intensive industries that have largely disappeared in modern Western nations. This has been the development path of all developed nations.

As modern economies are already struggling with worsening labor conditions for the majority of their people and the resulting stresses on social programs, it makes little sense to open immigration to the impoverished masses.

This is a realist perspective. Denying the economic factors at play here will only lead to increased socio economic tension in developed societies at a time when such tension is already at a high water mark in modern history.

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#47

Post by DanBC »

chrisseaton wrote: post #30
nutjob2 wrote: post #20

This is par for the course in the UK right now. The Tories have been pandering to the xenophobes and racists for some time now an their "hostile environment" for immigrants isn't restricted to ones who are doing something illegal, instead it seems to be targeted toward making life miserable, if not impossible for any immigrants wether they're doing the right thing or not. They have no problems breaking their own rule…

> The Tories have been pandering to the xenophobes and racists for some time now ... In the case of the Windrush Generation, who just happen to be black, the Home Office destroyed archives that contained proof of eligibility of residence Just to fact check this, https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-who-destro... , it was a Labour-administrated Home Office that decided to destroy them, although it looks l…

The hostile environment is definitely a Conservate thing though.

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#48

Post by vidarh »

caiob wrote: post #17

Is there something about English-speaking countries that make them behave like dicks when it comes to immigration?

In this case, Theresa May presided over the Home Office before she became PM, and spent 6 years promising to cut immigration but instead of actually doing that in a transparent way with quotas etc. that would open the door for discussion about whether or not said rules were right, she instead did her best to create a hostile environment for applicants instead. This practice has continued in other areas of government under her leadership, such as the benefits system. It's a fairly uniquely passive aggressive approach to government that seems to take Kafka or Gilliams Brazil as a recipe rather than a warning.

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#49

Post by conjectures »

pavlov wrote: post #14

Anti-immigration people in various countries often argue that they just want to prevent “bad ones” coming in, they’re not looking to throw out the “good ones”. The reality is that there’s no leniency for perceived good immigrants as these people imagine, and it’s just getting worse as immigration policies are tightened across Europe. Officials are under pressure to refuse as many applications as they can, and it’s ea…

Yup. I think a lot of this is Goodhart's law in action. You measure a bureaucracy's effectiveness by how many people it can kick out / refuse and this is what happens.

The guy unfortunately represented easy deportation points due to making an honest mistake. No discretion was used because of the above.

The practical solution is to use a good immigration lawyer for stuff like this. It sucks, it's unfair, but it's true.

Re: What happens if you mistakenly apply for British citizenship?

#50

Post by ppod »

nutjob2 wrote: post #20

This is par for the course in the UK right now. The Tories have been pandering to the xenophobes and racists for some time now an their "hostile environment" for immigrants isn't restricted to ones who are doing something illegal, instead it seems to be targeted toward making life miserable, if not impossible for any immigrants wether they're doing the right thing or not. They have no problems breaking their own rule…

Look at this poll:

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/docume...

The voters of all parties support these policies. What is "pandering" in a democracy? The people are xenophobes, they are getting what they want.

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