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Mastodon Is Better Than Twitter: Elevator Pitch

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Re: Mastodon Is Better Than Twitter: Elevator Pitch

#11
The posting from a few days ago that reimagined email as a social network really got me thinking how much our approach to social networks has been led by the webbification of everything.

The spirit-of-the-nineties approach to recreating mastodon would probably look like one or two dominant native apps and something like a newsgroup server. Or maybe something like a really great RSS reader.

Questions about federation vs a walled controlled servive would be silly, because technologists are fighting it out to sell the best app. And of course a walled-in service is stupid because that would be as obsolete as Compuserve.

We’re all fighting it out on the web now. Well, except possibly on iOS and (grudgingly) Android. In some ways I think the web was how we geeks made survival on Linux possible, as we never had the mass to demand desktop apps.

Part of what I liked about the reimagining of email as social media was that it allowed for the return of the app. In the case of Mastodon, the protocols are presumably open and don’t preclude interaction via apps. So here the question of web or heavy client is not technical but one of point of view or preference.

This is all to say I kind of miss when we were chasing “the killer app” as opposed to competing for service share. When the focus was on the user’s desktop, any associated service was more or less seen as boring plumbing—-certainly nothing to have brand affinity for.

EDIT: Case in point, there’s another comment explaining that Mastodon doesn’t let you move instances and retain followers. In the 90s app-centric view of the world this is a non-issue, because following other people is the client’s job, for better or worse. Your computer crashes, you lose who you were following. If you want to publish who you’re following that’s you or your client’s job.

Giving up your social network graph to the service provider isn’t an issue in the heavy client model, because the 90s service isn’t going to pay to store that information on your behalf anyway. It wasn’t because the service viewed that personal information as “oily rags”; it was because they simply didn’t want to expend the resources to store it.

Re: Mastodon Is Better Than Twitter: Elevator Pitch

#12
I can’t quite get over this critiquing of Twitter’s Retweet system. I totally understand how it’s misused but all the benefits are overlooked too. I love retweeting with commentary for positive reasons. I find they are a great way to validate and engage people who reply. I never think of using them as a tool for shaming, so I would be sad to see the feature go.

Re: Mastodon Is Better Than Twitter: Elevator Pitch

#14

>Finally, with instances, you keep control: if you find that you don't like the moderation policies or culture of a particular instance, you're always free to pick up and move to a different one. Last I heard, Mastodon didn't support migration between instances while still keeping followers, etc. Instead, you have to essentially start from scratch with a new account on a new instance. This is a serious problem becaus…

Yeah, I spent a few weeks (months?) on Mastodon, and even though I was on a cooperatively owned and operated instance[0] it just wasn't a substitute for a fully p2p social network.

I found another network called Scuttlebutt[1] that I've been using almost daily. It has a few neat features:

- your account is just your public key

- your profile is an append-only feed of JSON messages, each cryptographically signed

- when you follow people you replicate their profile on your device

- messages are transmitted with an eventually consistent gossip network, which is fast and resilient

- you can assign nicknames to yourself and others, and since there isn't a central naming authority (if you have two friends named Matt, you get to disambiguate however you would in real life)

- all data is downloaded locally, so you can view all the same content whether you're online or off-grid

- you can reply while offline and your messages will sync when you peer again (again, think gossip networks)

- there are tons of different clients and implementations and applications running on the network

  - Twitter-like posts  

  - IRC-like chat  

  - blogging  

  - Signal-like private messages
  
  - image search  

  - chess (!)  

  - secret sharding among friends (!!)  

  - mutual credit  

  - by far the best community I've ever been a part of

Anyway, if you want to love Mastodon you might look into Scuttlebutt.

[0]: https://social.coop

[1]: https://scuttlebutt.nz

EDIT: having trouble formatting the list, did I mention that Scuttlebutt supports full Markdown?

Re: Mastodon Is Better Than Twitter: Elevator Pitch

#15
post #6

Who names these things - cumbersome, heavy, ancient ... doesn't look like they did even a cursory test. I'm as anti-marketing as the next person but that doesn't mean I'd call my child Shithead.

I'm a little turned off by posts being called toots but I suppose I could get over it.

Re: Mastodon Is Better Than Twitter: Elevator Pitch

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can export the lists of people you follow, block, or mute, and then import them into your new account at your new instance. With regards people that follow you, you can mark an account as migrated and leave a forwarding address. People are starting to do this, and it seems to be working reasonably well, although it's obviously not ideal. This is a difficult problem to solve and people are actively working on it.…

Would it be interesting to have sort of a signed "302 moved permanently" message that signals to other clients to automatically follow the other account?

But what if the original instance shuts down, or becomes malicious and doesn't cooperate?

Re: Mastodon Is Better Than Twitter: Elevator Pitch

#17

I recently joined Twitter and I have to agree that Retweets are the most cancerous part. Accounts with many followers act like schoolyard bullies with their gang of yes men. I still see federation as being too niche, but it doesn't have to be that way! I think in an ideal situation, federated servers would rely more on physical location than on deviant niche hobbies or addictions. The Smith family should have a serve…

ISPs could even provide the federated services like they provide e-mail. Another way it might work is companies that sell people federated service servers as products that they can deploy for example in their home or let the company host it. In any case maintenance must be included. I don't see how federated will take off without commercial support. The Smiths might be technically capable but I doubt the Jones's who are not are willing to let the Smiths control their service. That kind of defeats the point.

Re: Mastodon Is Better Than Twitter: Elevator Pitch

#19
post #6

Who names these things - cumbersome, heavy, ancient ... doesn't look like they did even a cursory test. I'm as anti-marketing as the next person but that doesn't mean I'd call my child Shithead.

Sounds more like a good name for a metal band... Oh wait

Re: Mastodon Is Better Than Twitter: Elevator Pitch

#20

I recently joined Twitter and I have to agree that Retweets are the most cancerous part. Accounts with many followers act like schoolyard bullies with their gang of yes men. I still see federation as being too niche, but it doesn't have to be that way! I think in an ideal situation, federated servers would rely more on physical location than on deviant niche hobbies or addictions. The Smith family should have a serve…

ISPs could even provide the federated services like they provide e-mail. Another way it might work is companies that sell people federated service servers as products that they can deploy for example in their home or let the company host it. In any case maintenance must be included. I don't see how federated will take off without commercial support. The Smiths might be technically capable but I doubt the Jones's who…

Do people use ISPs email anymore?
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