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Greg Mankiw: I Can Afford Higher Taxes. But They’ll Make Me Work Less.

nytimes.com

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Re: Greg Mankiw: I Can Afford Higher Taxes. But They’ll Make Me Work Less.

#81

Post by jamesaguilar »

natrius wrote: post #80
jamesaguilar wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I see what you are trying to say. But I don't think anyone knows exactly what the problem with the economy is, and if they did, I would not expect to hear about it for the first time in a comment on hacker news. The average person not making enough income is a symptom of almost every kind of problem that can occur in a free economy, but it is not a cause.

If you're hearing that point for the first time today , then you've been paying very little attention to the discourse about the recession over the past couple of years.

Of course I have heard the contention that people are not able to buy things because their incomes are lower than they need to be. I'm saying that is a symptom, not a cause, of the current problems with our economy, and I have not seen it described credibly as a cause.

Re: Greg Mankiw: I Can Afford Higher Taxes. But They’ll Make Me Work Less.

#82

Post by MaysonL »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #48
hdctambien wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the problem right now that people aren't spending money, though? Banks have plenty of money to lend (see the TARP and the Fed throwing money at them). Companies have money to spend. Neither are doing anything because the economy isn't churning because people aren't spending their money. They either have no money to spend (the unemployed), or they are saving their money because they don't trust their company to…

I know that people not having money to spend is an ongoing symptom of the problem with our economy. If it were true giving poor people $N thousand would fix our problems, I would support that move. But I haven't seen a credible argument to this effect besides gut reactions from people writing comments like yours. Do you have any links to articles from experts making similar claims? Any evidence of consensus on this t…

Go read Paul Krugman on why the stimulus was way too small, and stop trolling.

Re: Greg Mankiw: I Can Afford Higher Taxes. But They’ll Make Me Work Less.

#84

Post by jamesaguilar »

MaysonL wrote: post #82
jamesaguilar wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that people not having money to spend is an ongoing symptom of the problem with our economy. If it were true giving poor people $N thousand would fix our problems, I would support that move. But I haven't seen a credible argument to this effect besides gut reactions from people writing comments like yours. Do you have any links to articles from experts making similar claims? Any evidence of consensus on this t…

Go read Paul Krugman on why the stimulus was way too small, and stop trolling.

That was unnecessarily rude. What I've written is far from trolling, and it's irresponsible and uncharitable of you to call it that.

If you mean this [1], I have read the Krugman article on the stimulus' size. I'm sure Mr. Krugman's analyses are correct in the short term, although I suspect there's some question of how much you can increase GDP through government spending before other effects start working against you (like uncertainty about future taxes, decreasing ability of the country to borrow more money, etc.).

Regardless, like an ice bath is to a fever, this may treat one symptom, or even temporarily make things better, but it may also make things worse in the long run. There's nothing even remotely like a consensus that increased government spending and extra money for the poor is the correct solution to the current economic climate.

[1] http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/stimulus-arithme...

Re: Greg Mankiw: I Can Afford Higher Taxes. But They’ll Make Me Work Less.

#85

Post by natrius »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #81
natrius wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're hearing that point for the first time today , then you've been paying very little attention to the discourse about the recession over the past couple of years.

Of course I have heard the contention that people are not able to buy things because their incomes are lower than they need to be. I'm saying that is a symptom, not a cause, of the current problems with our economy, and I have not seen it described credibly as a cause.

"This strongly suggests that it’s a weak labor market for everyone out there, and businesses have no trouble finding the workers they need; they just don’t know what to do with those workers, given weak demand."

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/20/structural-imped...

People aren't buying things (presumably because they can't afford them), so businesses aren't hiring. Look at the graph. Businesses aren't concerned about "Interest Rates & Finance", which means they can get the money they need. They just don't have anyone to sell things to.

I don't think my accusation that you weren't paying attention has any merit since this is the article I was thinking of at the time, and it's only three weeks old. I apologize. I think there were other things said along these lines, though.

Re: Greg Mankiw: I Can Afford Higher Taxes. But They’ll Make Me Work Less.

#86

Post by d2viant »

TYPE_FASTER wrote: post #65

Couldn't he use a LLC to avoid the estate tax? His whole argument seems overly simplified to point of being incorrect to me. Is he talking about investing in a company that's growing 8% or is it his investment in the company that grows at 8%? The corporate tax rate of 35% is another example. Does revenue from Google UK count towards the total revenue for Google? If so, then since Google's UK headquarters are in Irela…

As far as I'm aware, the revenue generated by a foreign subsidiary is not taxed again by the US until it enters the US economy. So long as it stays overseas we don't touch it. It's interesting to hear people note the record amounts of cash that US companies have on hand right now, but much of that is in foreign accounts and can't be brought into the US without paying a huge tax on it.

Re: Greg Mankiw: I Can Afford Higher Taxes. But They’ll Make Me Work Less.

#87

Post by ivankirigin »

pingswept wrote: post #51
pg wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to pay estate tax on gifts too. Otherwise rich people could avoid estate tax by giving their assets to their kids before they died.

I believe that is not the case for amounts below $13k. See http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/article-30095.html A less comprehensible explanation is available from the IRS here: http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=108139,00....

Fun fact: that $13K limit can actually be a lot bigger. That is the limit from one person to another. Mom gives daughter $13K, mom gives son-in-law $13K, Mom gives kid #1 $13K, dad gives daughter...

Not a good way to rid yourself of millions, obviously.

Re: Greg Mankiw: I Can Afford Higher Taxes. But They’ll Make Me Work Less.

#88

Post by MaysonL »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #84
MaysonL wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go read Paul Krugman on why the stimulus was way too small, and stop trolling.

That was unnecessarily rude. What I've written is far from trolling, and it's irresponsible and uncharitable of you to call it that. If you mean this [1], I have read the Krugman article on the stimulus' size. I'm sure Mr. Krugman's analyses are correct in the short term, although I suspect there's some question of how much you can increase GDP through government spending before other effects start working against yo…

1) Future taxes were made inevitable by a) the unfunded Bush tax cuts b) the unfunded Bush Medicare part D prescription drug benefits c) the unfunded Bush war in Iraq. To spend is to tax. If you (as a government) spend, you are going to have to tax, either now or in the future, either directly or by devaluation (inflation) of the currency.

Presently, there is zero indication of any decreasing ability of the US government to borrow money.

The reason there isn't any consensus on increased stimulus spending at present is mainly because of Republican lies, and the economists like Mankiw (a Bush advisor) who spin in support of them.

As you may gather from this post, I'm somewhat pissed off at the situation, and probably vented at you because of my anger. Sorry for the overreaction.

Re: Greg Mankiw: I Can Afford Higher Taxes. But They’ll Make Me Work Less.

#89

Post by jamesaguilar »

MaysonL wrote: post #88
jamesaguilar wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was unnecessarily rude. What I've written is far from trolling, and it's irresponsible and uncharitable of you to call it that. If you mean this [1], I have read the Krugman article on the stimulus' size. I'm sure Mr. Krugman's analyses are correct in the short term, although I suspect there's some question of how much you can increase GDP through government spending before other effects start working against yo…

1) Future taxes were made inevitable by a) the unfunded Bush tax cuts b) the unfunded Bush Medicare part D prescription drug benefits c) the unfunded Bush war in Iraq. To spend is to tax. If you (as a government) spend, you are going to have to tax, either now or in the future, either directly or by devaluation (inflation) of the currency. Presently, there is zero indication of any decreasing ability of the US govern…

It's OK. I sometimes get riled up about politics too.

I agree, to spend is to tax. But to spend even more is to tax even more. I'm sure additional stimulus dollars would be money far better spent than the money we have spent burning Iraq and Afghanistan to the ground, but the fact remains that additional stimulus spending must be additionally paid back some day. The chief question in my mind is whether the return on those additional dollars would be worth the price.

I think you may be overestimating the extent to which outright Republican lies, numerous though they are, are affecting consensus on this issue among economists. For example, there are many non-Keynesians out there who disagree with the assertion that high government spending can counteract a recession.

I must confess, though, I don't have my ear to the ground as well as I would like on this topic. Kind of makes you wish that there was a Cliff's notes for recent updates in the outlook of experts and academics on various important topics. My understanding is that Krugman's outlook typically differs somewhat from most economists' beliefs (as surely it would with Mankiw's arguments in the linked article), but perhaps that is not the case re: additional stimulus spending?

Re: Greg Mankiw: I Can Afford Higher Taxes. But They’ll Make Me Work Less.

#90

Post by loumf »

mikeryan wrote: post #17

So if you are A. Making over 250,000 a year B. Not planning on spending additional income yourself, but instead planning to save that money for your children when you die. C. Have opportunities to make (relatively) small incremental chunks of income. D. Have the ability to sock away money at a 8% compounding rate. It might not be worth your while to take on additional work. And this is entirely on Obama for letting t…

Obama cannot do anything about tax rates -- the 2001 congress passed a temporary tax cut which Bush signed. Whatever you think about the tax-rates going up was decided 10 years ago to dodge CBO projections of cost by Bush and that congress.
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