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Safety-first AI for autonomous data centre cooling and industrial control

deepmind.com

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Re: Safety-first AI for autonomous data centre cooling and industrial control

#21
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's been working so well I wonder if they'd even notice before it's too late I guess the solution is to simulate faults everywhere at all times in production. Something most systems definitely ignore. Fault tolerance is just too different from "normal" way of writing software, it can't be done well without paradigm shift.

You were downvoted but I think you're right. Netflix's Chaos Monkey is a similar idea: https://github.com/Netflix/SimianArmy/wiki/Chaos-Monkey

Yeah, Chaos Monkey is a nice idea. Although it's more like an after the fact solution to the problem, not addressed from the beginning.

I mean imagine if you have a distributed system like an object storage or a database. Before deploying it into production you try to evaluate how it performs in various conditions. But you can't really do it thoroughly enough and on a lot of data, you can only scratch the surface and this forms your expectations about performance. You deploy it into production and start monitoring how it performs and relying on that performance that you barely understand. Everything seems fine, until you add nodes to the system or replace an hdd and suddenly it becomes so slow, that nothing works anymore. Turns out everyone, including system designers, had broken assumptions about its performance and didn't even think about it, because testing fault tolerance was always done only separately from normal mode of operation and it was impossible to grasp how they affect each other and come up with better algorithms.

Re: Safety-first AI for autonomous data centre cooling and industrial control

#22
post #20

This explanation ignores the risk that is posed by sudden absence of the AI. Given that it's a remote system this seems relevant. If, for whatever reason, the AI decides to call it quits, or the network in between disconnects, what happens ? I ask because I've implemented systems that allowed operators of large networks to do exponentially more work, and therefore grow the network while keeping operators down. It ess…

The blog post already explains this. > Automatic Failover to a neutral state if the AI control system does violate safety constraints. Smooth Transfer during failovers to prevent sudden changes to the system. Rules and heuristics as backup if we need to exit AI control mode.

That'd just be one automatic system attempting to compensate for another going offline. Same question poses : what guarantees are in place to force maintenance of the second system (the one that never runs, except in exercises or disaster) ?

How long until management demands the datacenters work with cooling that just provides, say, five nines of cooling capacity ? Can you guarantee that doesn't happen ? Do engineers at Google even care that that doesn't happen ?

In other words, how long until Google loses the ability to pull the plug on this system from a physical perspective ? How long until Google loses that ability from an economic perspective (that turning it off would incur unacceptable costs) ?

Re: Safety-first AI for autonomous data centre cooling and industrial control

#23
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blog post already explains this. > Automatic Failover to a neutral state if the AI control system does violate safety constraints. Smooth Transfer during failovers to prevent sudden changes to the system. Rules and heuristics as backup if we need to exit AI control mode.

That'd just be one automatic system attempting to compensate for another going offline. Same question poses : what guarantees are in place to force maintenance of the second system (the one that never runs, except in exercises or disaster) ? How long until management demands the datacenters work with cooling that just provides, say, five nines of cooling capacity ? Can you guarantee that doesn't happen ? Do engineers…

You keep it maintained the same way you keep any other backup system maintained; with regular tests.

And if it ever reaches the point where the AI system is so reliable that they're comfortable ditching the backups, I'd call that a win.

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