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Algorithm and Blues: The Tyranny of the Coming Smart-Tech Utopia

cyberlaw.stanford.edu

41–49 of 49 posts

Re: Algorithm and Blues: The Tyranny of the Coming Smart-Tech Utopia

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except now corporate greed had to shit all over it. One of the big plot holes of the Star Trek universe is that money and bartering would ever go away (they ended up back tracking in a major way on this) or that anything like the Federation would ever be as benevolent or magnanimous as it is portrayed. That is, I don't think taking corporations or greed out of it will make the tech better. People are people, whethe…

Personally I don't see it as a plothole so much as not receiving sufficient backstory justification - or doing so not fitting the genre well. Like if the earth spent a while as a cyberpunk dystopia and had "ancestors" of Augments who had lesser issues but were used to give the elites a self-perpetuating edge writ large, disregarded space as having no profit, and refused to provide any welfare despite a pitance of the…

[deleted]

Re: Algorithm and Blues: The Tyranny of the Coming Smart-Tech Utopia

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except now corporate greed had to shit all over it. One of the big plot holes of the Star Trek universe is that money and bartering would ever go away (they ended up back tracking in a major way on this) or that anything like the Federation would ever be as benevolent or magnanimous as it is portrayed. That is, I don't think taking corporations or greed out of it will make the tech better. People are people, whethe…

Personally I don't see it as a plothole so much as not receiving sufficient backstory justification - or doing so not fitting the genre well. Like if the earth spent a while as a cyberpunk dystopia and had "ancestors" of Augments who had lesser issues but were used to give the elites a self-perpetuating edge writ large, disregarded space as having no profit, and refused to provide any welfare despite a pitance of the…

Starship Troopers had that sort of thing going on, in the sense that Heinlein portrayed the society of the novel as a militaristic, conservative authoritarian regime born out of economic turmoil of a vaguely sketched past that alluded to predecessors being too laissez faire, sloppy and permissive.

On some level it was a joke shot through with distortions, deliberately inaccurate misinterpretations of history, and willful ignorance among the characters of the xenophobia’s capacity to forge bonds among the ingroup of humans volunteering to accept the burden of fighting outsiders as a gateway to other privileges.

This part is glossed over with the premise of starfleet academy, or the motivating factors that impel characters toward their rank and status. So, we start to see that star trek is something of a cartoon, with “post-scarcity economics” being a deus ex machina for unlimited resources, leading to unlimited technology, leading to unlimited resources, with only a vague line connecting warp drive to first contact with vulcans, which then grants all other technologies for free as originating from alien discoveries.

Anyway, I think we’re pretty close to the idea of robots doing a lot of tedious things for us, if we play our cards right, which means we start to see a lot of things essentially growing on trees. Automatic hamburger machines mean less people slaving away over a hot grill in a low paying fast food chain, which is great, but this premise of automation won’t really save us unless robots can solve the human condition end-to-end.

It means we need a place to stay, clothes to wear, food and water, and something to keep us stimulated and occupied in such a way that we don’t get lonely. All this so that we can go out and find things that keep life interesting, once all our basic needs are met by default. That doesn’t seem to be where all our great inventions are taking us though.

With a harsh light and a strong lens, a lot of consumer oriented inventions do nothing for anyone. Business still seems to aim at bankrupting customers and competitors alike in furtherance of bigger business. Taken to logical conclusions those coziest with successful businesses get taken care of, and it’s near total neglect everywhere else.

But that doesn’t exist in a vaccuum. Really all the most extraordinary inventions have been miitary concepts. Preparing for war makes peace. Maybe that’s the proper inspiration at work here...

Re: Algorithm and Blues: The Tyranny of the Coming Smart-Tech Utopia

#43
post #2

> Most people do not subscribe fully or exclusively to the ideals embedded in the smart-tech utopian vision, yet they’ll have no choice but to live by those ideals. All too true. The kinds of comment like "but they can just not use X" always appear in the context of Facebook/Google (often when they appear on HN). But that's like saying you should just "not use CCTV". I'm not a user of FB/Google/Smart Tech, it uses me…

Concerning Facebook and Google specifically, what makes them “impossible to live without”? That would be very surprising considering I (and many others) don’t use them. Not that I disagree with your overall sentiment.

See the siblings' comment by brundolf. In China they are implementing a system without cash, and with a social credit reputation system, where you have no choice but to use government-approved apps provided by Tencent and Alibaba and others.

Re: Algorithm and Blues: The Tyranny of the Coming Smart-Tech Utopia

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except now corporate greed had to shit all over it. One of the big plot holes of the Star Trek universe is that money and bartering would ever go away (they ended up back tracking in a major way on this) or that anything like the Federation would ever be as benevolent or magnanimous as it is portrayed. That is, I don't think taking corporations or greed out of it will make the tech better. People are people, whethe…

Personally I don't see it as a plothole so much as not receiving sufficient backstory justification - or doing so not fitting the genre well. Like if the earth spent a while as a cyberpunk dystopia and had "ancestors" of Augments who had lesser issues but were used to give the elites a self-perpetuating edge writ large, disregarded space as having no profit, and refused to provide any welfare despite a pitance of the…

The Star Trek universe provided ample backstory to this over various series and several movies: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/World_War_III

Re: Algorithm and Blues: The Tyranny of the Coming Smart-Tech Utopia

#45
post #2

> Most people do not subscribe fully or exclusively to the ideals embedded in the smart-tech utopian vision, yet they’ll have no choice but to live by those ideals. All too true. The kinds of comment like "but they can just not use X" always appear in the context of Facebook/Google (often when they appear on HN). But that's like saying you should just "not use CCTV". I'm not a user of FB/Google/Smart Tech, it uses me…

Concerning Facebook and Google specifically, what makes them “impossible to live without”? That would be very surprising considering I (and many others) don’t use them. Not that I disagree with your overall sentiment.

So yeah, I guess they aren't "impossible" to live with out in the strictest sense. But having lived with them for some years and then going cold turkey becomes impractical to the point of impossible the next time you organise some get together and dont have a way to coordinate with a large group of people. Don't get me wrong, that is a really excellent feature of FB/Google tools, which is what keeps people around in spite of the creepyness.

Like you say, lots of people get by fine without, but is that because you have never really used them so much as to become dependent on them? The world worked without the internet, but try taking it back to that place now and you'd be laughed at!

Re: Algorithm and Blues: The Tyranny of the Coming Smart-Tech Utopia

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I don't see it as a plothole so much as not receiving sufficient backstory justification - or doing so not fitting the genre well. Like if the earth spent a while as a cyberpunk dystopia and had "ancestors" of Augments who had lesser issues but were used to give the elites a self-perpetuating edge writ large, disregarded space as having no profit, and refused to provide any welfare despite a pitance of the…

The Star Trek universe provided ample backstory to this over various series and several movies: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/World_War_III

Also Past Tense[1] for some history prior to WWIII.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_Tense_(Star_Trek:_Deep_Sp...

Re: Algorithm and Blues: The Tyranny of the Coming Smart-Tech Utopia

#47

When technology goes well it provides tons of value and becomes invisible. Like the layers in an OS or 1000s of parts in a car for example. The complaints that life is more complex than before usually fail to compare it to the complexity of things we're accomplishing and what that could have looked like 50,500, 500 0 years ago... made up example: Communicate with someone on the other side of the planet... Now: type a…

Look at the number of people you can potentially communicate with, and there will be a visible increase in complexity. 5000 years ago it would max out at a few thousand even if you were one of the rare people living in major cities. Now you could instantly communicate with billions and have to take active counter-measures to prevent the ones you don't want to communicate with from doing it.

Re: Algorithm and Blues: The Tyranny of the Coming Smart-Tech Utopia

#48
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concerning Facebook and Google specifically, what makes them “impossible to live without”? That would be very surprising considering I (and many others) don’t use them. Not that I disagree with your overall sentiment.

So yeah, I guess they aren't "impossible" to live with out in the strictest sense. But having lived with them for some years and then going cold turkey becomes impractical to the point of impossible the next time you organise some get together and dont have a way to coordinate with a large group of people. Don't get me wrong, that is a really excellent feature of FB/Google tools, which is what keeps people around in…

Why not use email or group SMS for organizing events? You can also use E2EE if needed.

There are viable alternatives to Google and Facebook that don’t require giving up on technology. It’s important for people to realize that.

Re: Algorithm and Blues: The Tyranny of the Coming Smart-Tech Utopia

#49
post #21
post #2

> Most people do not subscribe fully or exclusively to the ideals embedded in the smart-tech utopian vision, yet they’ll have no choice but to live by those ideals. All too true. The kinds of comment like "but they can just not use X" always appear in the context of Facebook/Google (often when they appear on HN). But that's like saying you should just "not use CCTV". I'm not a user of FB/Google/Smart Tech, it uses me…

It's even more the case in China, where their big tech companies have integrated with the government. Imagine being unable to get a loan without a Facebook account, or being unable to vote without Google. It's tempting to see these trends and just cut yourself off even further; boycott Big Tech and claim that they don't affect you because you're opting-out. But we're reaching a point where that's not enough, because…

Well, in the good ol' USA, gov't seems to be increasingly shifting to Twitter these days. That's more than a little disconcerting.
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