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NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

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Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#471

Post by bob_marley2 »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #360
sf_rob wrote: post #32

I'll probably be downvoted on a forum like this, but I worry about the most successful universities using their funds to subsidize those who would be fine without it. I was actually made aware of this by a wealthy Stanford alumni which has a fairly broad program for undergraduate tuition assistance. Graduates of mid/low tier universities seem more and more likely to have to compete with better credentialed people wit…

That would presuppose that admission at schools like Stanford is more skewed towards wealthy students than the "lesser" schools. Which I doubt. But even if, then that would be the problem to address, rather than cutting the assistance programs.

It's not even remotely controversial that students at top schools are overwhelmingly more well off than average. At Stanford theres roughly the same number of students whose families are in the top 1% of income as those in the bottom 60%.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/18/upshot/some-c...

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#472

Post by bob_marley2 »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #277
sf_rob wrote: post #32

I'll probably be downvoted on a forum like this, but I worry about the most successful universities using their funds to subsidize those who would be fine without it. I was actually made aware of this by a wealthy Stanford alumni which has a fairly broad program for undergraduate tuition assistance. Graduates of mid/low tier universities seem more and more likely to have to compete with better credentialed people wit…

Graduates of mid/low tier universities seem more and more likely to have to compete with better credentialed people with lower debt. Or maybe it starts a trend that if you apply yourself and make sure you do really well at X, you can graduate without a lot of debt. Maybe this leads to a world where we get better at helping people find the thing they can excel at so they can qualify for the free ride and then be aweso…

How many Billion dollar companies haven't been started because a brilliant but poor entrepreneur was unable to take the risk? How enormous is the societal loss because of this? Frankly I find your position disturbing.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#473

Post by JoeAltmaier »

bob_marley2 wrote: post #471
bayesian_horse wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would presuppose that admission at schools like Stanford is more skewed towards wealthy students than the "lesser" schools. Which I doubt. But even if, then that would be the problem to address, rather than cutting the assistance programs.

It's not even remotely controversial that students at top schools are overwhelmingly more well off than average. At Stanford theres roughly the same number of students whose families are in the top 1% of income as those in the bottom 60%. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/18/upshot/some-c...

But isn't that a tremendous endorsement of Stanford? That they have recruited so well and changed their cost structure so effectively that even the poor can attend?

How do other top-level schools compare?

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#474

Post by bob_marley2 »

avip wrote: post #395
geff82 wrote: post #391

What a surreal discussion about something obvious: University and college should be free for everyone. First, this is a great equalizer in the positive way: it does not depend on how wealthy your parents are, so you get an equal opportunity. Second: the society as a whole benefits from well educated people. Accounts need well trained doctors, doctors need well trained accountants, both need an engineer to craft them…

Always replace "free" with "I'm paying for you". I don't know what's "obvious" about me paying your tuition fees. For once, I may be happy to fund your auto-mechanic studies as I know I'll need you to fix my car. But if you're studying ancient Akkadian I'm less inclined to pay your bills.

You pay for roads which Thieves, Street Racers and other criminals use on a daily basis, where's your outrage for that?

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#475

Post by bob_marley2 »

Karishma1234 wrote: post #397
geff82 wrote: post #391

What a surreal discussion about something obvious: University and college should be free for everyone. First, this is a great equalizer in the positive way: it does not depend on how wealthy your parents are, so you get an equal opportunity. Second: the society as a whole benefits from well educated people. Accounts need well trained doctors, doctors need well trained accountants, both need an engineer to craft them…

"Free" means someone else should be paying for it. Now, as an average income guy I will never earn as much as a Doctor and will vehemently oppose any move to pay for these would be rich people's education. If the degree is worth something, please pay it yourself. >Countries like Germany show All these kids are more than welcome to go to Germany and save $500K in tuition fees.

>All these kids are more than welcome to go to Germany and save $500K in tuition fees.

Be careful what you wish for, brain drain is a real phenomena.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#476

Post by bob_marley2 »

geff82 wrote: post #391

What a surreal discussion about something obvious: University and college should be free for everyone. First, this is a great equalizer in the positive way: it does not depend on how wealthy your parents are, so you get an equal opportunity. Second: the society as a whole benefits from well educated people. Accounts need well trained doctors, doctors need well trained accountants, both need an engineer to craft them…

This is because Americans have a collective mental illness when it comes to publicly funding societal goods.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#477

Post by refurb »

hellllllllooo wrote: post #246
rayiner wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're going to really need that military when China, when we make degrees in underwater basketweaving free for everyone and China (which has a sensible approach to what education is and is not valuable) overtakes us economically and technologically.

Sure. Those invisible fighter jets that don't work were a great investment. https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a21957/wtf-35/ The US military is a publicly funded socialist entity. Interesting how that's ok for war but not for education.

Can something be socialist when a private version could never exist?

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#478

Post by chimeracoder »

windows_tips wrote: post #465
chimeracoder wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The mechanism by which you default on a loan is bankruptcy. If you can't discharge a loan in bankruptcy, you can't default on it. This is absolutely, completely, 100% wrong. Defaulting on a loan means that the borrower has failed to repay according to the agreed-upon terms. > Some people never make enough money to pay it off, after which the government will pay the loan off after a few years. The lender gets payed…

>The lender is not guaranteed to be paid their principal back. This may apply for personal loans, where real money is given up; but, it's not really correct to call a bank, the originators of most private student loans, as far as I know, a 'lender'; as, banks don't lend their own money, but create new money through promissory notes.

> This may apply for personal loans, where real money is given up; but, it's not really correct to call a bank, the originators of most private student loans, as far as I know, a 'lender';

It is 100% correct to refer to a bank as a lender. This is standard use of terminology.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#479

Post by dionidium »

brtknr wrote: post #290

I do not live in the US and therefore I am not sure why medicine has been singled out as a worthy profession to receive subsidy over many others? Don’t those in the medical profession get paid reasonably well over there? Aren’t there other professions equally necessary for a functional society that don’t get compensated as well as they should like teachers, social workers and those in the voluntary sectors who would…

It's also the case that medical students are a pretty good risk. Graduation rates are very high [0] compared to the broader population of undergrads [1].

We sometimes talk about college as a binary -- "Did you go to college? Yes/No? Should we pay for college? Yes/no?" -- but there are enormous differences in experiences and outcomes across majors and institutions.

[0] https://www.aamc.org/download/379220/data/may2014aib-graduat...

[1] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=40

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#480

Post by EGreg »

Glad to see my Alma Mater leading in things like this. Now NYU medical school will be an even more sought-after destination.

Still I look forward to a world where this scarcity of ivy league schools, news organizations, self-driving car software etc. is a thing of the past and everyone collaborates on a growing snowball of knowledge.

I believe universities will eventually turn into centers for labs, certification and socializing, while information delivery (the commodity) would be done entirely online and students would form their own groups. Then, school would be much cheaper - and we could even have free subsidized tuition for all!

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