NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students • Hacker News Board

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#451

Post by jpambrun » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 1:01 PM UTC

aabajian wrote: post #4

This is amazing. I graduated from medical school two years ago with $300,000 in debt. I'm a software developer on the side and would love to stop residency to try a healthcare startup and/or pursue a research, but the risk is too great - I need the attending salary to pay off the debt.

But it would be a total waste for society if they paid your education in full and you did not practice.

One related challenge of inexpensive education is the 'brain drain'. I am Canadian and hold a PhD in Engineering. Tuition was about 3,000 CAD a year throughout my education, with scholarships I ended up no dept at all. Now the temptation is move to the US or Europe is pretty strong, but I am still far from having 'repaid' the gouvernement's 100s of thousands of dollar (with ~160,000$ of in-pocket scholarships) investment in me.

I think free or near-free education is great, but it's a bit of a gamble.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#452

Post by Jacqued » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 1:18 PM UTC

h4b4n3r0 wrote: post #420

lazerwalker wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's just, like, your opinion, man. Society certainly does not need so many graduates in English Literature: there are only so many open positions at McDonalds, and they as a rule do not require a degree. This strikes me as a deeply sad view of the world. As an individual, a well-rounded education is a life-enriching thing, even if it doesn't directly tie into your professional career. As an overall society, havi…

>> This strikes me as a deeply sad view of the world. That's not a "view of the world", that's _objective reality_. There aren't enough jobs for those folks to take, so they end up at proverbial McDonalds. Those that do get jobs often don't get a wage that a degree that's in higher demand would command. That's the world that already exists, you can't will it away no matter how you finance people's education.

>> That's not a "view of the world", that's _objective reality_.

That's just, like, your opinion, man. Setting aside arguments as to the mere existence of "objective reality". You're essentially saying "the way I see it is the only way to see it", which does not help convince someone who sees it differently.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#453

Post by selimthegrim » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 1:19 PM UTC

tribesman wrote: post #372

aantix wrote: post #150

This is probably the other piece of the puzzle regarding the implementation of single payer healthcare. Because who in their right mind wants to sacrifice 16 years of earning potential, take on 500K of debt only to become an MD with long work days and now prices that are fixed with no other form of negotiation leverage in sight.

>Because who in their right mind wants to sacrifice 16 years of earning potential, take on 500K of debt only to become an MD with long work days and now prices that are fixed with no other form of negotiation leverage in sight. Asians/Indians make most MDs in the US because being a doctor is valued a lot in their communities even if you've infinite debt, you still get respect. Second, most doctors come from doctor fa…

What if you want to do something your community doesn’t value?

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#454

Post by psychometry » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 1:38 PM UTC

wenc wrote: post #345

SahAssar wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't language defined by common use over time?

Yes it is by processes of consensus arising from appeals to stylistic license, shared community language, memes, etc. But not every grammatical error falls into these categories. Think of it this way - let's say you make a grammatical mistake that most people consider a mistake. You shouldn't hide behind the "language evolves" catch-all card... you should to recognize it as a mistake and try to use the correct form.…

Your first sentence almost led you to a realization that you're wrong, but you just barely missed the boat judging from your last sentence.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#455

Post by karlshea » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 1:43 PM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #120

sf_rob wrote: post #32

I'll probably be downvoted on a forum like this, but I worry about the most successful universities using their funds to subsidize those who would be fine without it. I was actually made aware of this by a wealthy Stanford alumni which has a fairly broad program for undergraduate tuition assistance. Graduates of mid/low tier universities seem more and more likely to have to compete with better credentialed people wit…

IDK. The same thought process led me to not being able to complete college due to financial reasons. Despite being emancipated, FAFSA still considers you a dependent until you're 24. I was told that only with documentation of leaving an abusive household would a dependency exception grant be applied. So according to FAFSA I was supposed to use all this money that I didn't have to pay for college. By 24 I had dropped…

I have exactly the same story. FAFSA was so frustrating.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#456

Post by originalbryan2 » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 1:49 PM UTC

talltimtom wrote: post #425

avip wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always replace "free" with "I'm paying for you". I don't know what's "obvious" about me paying your tuition fees. For once, I may be happy to fund your auto-mechanic studies as I know I'll need you to fix my car. But if you're studying ancient Akkadian I'm less inclined to pay your bills.

That is like saying you only want to pay taxes towards the roads you drive on yourself. Would you be better off if all publicly funded roads where instead private and required you to pay tolls per usage? You would defiantly get an bill more matching your usage, and people who don’t drive would pay less. But it at least feels like we are better off with public roads because they all add value to society as a whole. Th…

I love the private toll road idea! I'd never imagined them all being that way before.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#457

Post by JoeAltmaier » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 1:54 PM UTC

NYU already has an endowment large enough to accomplish this ($3B). They are not $400M donations on the way to $600M before this can happen. They just want more money, and they want Alumni etc to pay for it.

I've been confused why so many large-endowment colleges still charge tuition. It seems pointless, gathering crumbs from students each year. It creates institutional obstructions to whole classes of student etc. Is it just tradition?

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#458

Post by tribesman » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 2:00 PM UTC

selimthegrim wrote: post #453

tribesman wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because who in their right mind wants to sacrifice 16 years of earning potential, take on 500K of debt only to become an MD with long work days and now prices that are fixed with no other form of negotiation leverage in sight. Asians/Indians make most MDs in the US because being a doctor is valued a lot in their communities even if you've infinite debt, you still get respect. Second, most doctors come from doctor fa…

What if you want to do something your community doesn’t value?

Then the community does not value you untill you achieve success in the said profession. So it's very risky. Most guys don't choose it because then you've to hide in all family gatherings....

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#459

Post by wenc » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 2:01 PM UTC

psychometry wrote: post #454

wenc wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is by processes of consensus arising from appeals to stylistic license, shared community language, memes, etc. But not every grammatical error falls into these categories. Think of it this way - let's say you make a grammatical mistake that most people consider a mistake. You shouldn't hide behind the "language evolves" catch-all card... you should to recognize it as a mistake and try to use the correct form.…

Your first sentence almost led you to a realization that you're wrong, but you just barely missed the boat judging from your last sentence.

Not at all. You have misread me. That language evolves is a common used argument (and there is a place for it) but often used as a catch-all argument to justify errors.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#460

Post by ejstronge » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 2:09 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #457

NYU already has an endowment large enough to accomplish this ($3B). They are not $400M donations on the way to $600M before this can happen. They just want more money, and they want Alumni etc to pay for it. I've been confused why so many large-endowment colleges still charge tuition. It seems pointless, gathering crumbs from students each year. It creates institutional obstructions to whole classes of student etc. I…

I suspect that NYU, like many universities, has separate endowments for its academic units. Thus, the med school endowment may indeed be too small to support their free tuition goal.