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NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

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Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#441

Post by wool_gather »

mcny wrote: post #427
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, you are suggesting that medicaid, food stamps and low-income housing assistance should be offered to everybody? I don't think I have heard this suggested before. I'll have to ponder this.

> Wait, you are suggesting that medicaid, food stamps and low-income housing assistance should be offered to everybody? Yes. None of these programs should exist if we can't offer them to 100% of the population. Both Democrats and Republicans use these programs as a vote bank and it polarizes our public discourse.

Means testing is basically a compromise between the two extremes that you offer: fund them completely (by raising taxes) or drop them completely (because they're too expensive). That's the best you're going to get in a system where lots of people with vastly differing views have to agree on a single conclusion: a compromise that makes everyone a little bit unhappy.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#442

Post by smileysteve »

ams6110 wrote: post #335
curun1r wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget the gymnasiums, stadiums, aquatic centers and all the other high-priced facilities that schools have constructed to compete for those easy-to-get student dollars. Because who can learn in an environment without swimming pools?

For the most part, those types of facilities are paid for out of athletic department funds and donations. yes the sorts of facilities that universities build for athletics are extravagant and many would say ridiculous, but they really don't have a bearing on the cost of tuition.

> For the most part, those types of facilities are paid for out of athletic department funds and donations.

Just 23 of 228 (NCAA DIV 1 2013) athletic departments were profitable for their schools.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2013/05/07/nca...

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#443

Post by jessaustin »

hueving wrote: post #365
andrepd wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite so. It was the "free market" that gave out those loans, it was the "free market" that repackaged the CDOs knowing full well the repercussions in case of defaults, it was the "free market" that stacked rating agencies, regulators, courts, even academia, to prevent their cash cow from going away, or from suffering any kind of personal responsibility for their crimes.

I think you missed your opportunity to learn something because the parent post was being too subtle. Both student loans and the housing loans leading to the crisis are blinding examples of the government interfering with the risk assessment process of large loans resulting in a failure. Students get loans they can't realistically payback because the issuers know they are (mostly) safe from bankruptcy. In the early 20…

In both cases the government was even less "free" than the market. Interested parties distort laws and regulations to their own benefit.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#444

Post by Broken_Hippo »

Shivetya wrote: post #248
pandler wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve started thinking of the obligation to stick in industry to pay off my loans as an analog to having an organization like the US military pay for my degree. I have a few friends in the military studying at university for free. Their payment for those degrees essentially consists of X number years of obligatory post-degree military service, in addition to whatever military obligations during their study. [1] It’s a…

this is the one issue I never see proposed by the politicians trying to buy votes with free college. it should only be "free" provided you give back to society as prescribed by the education you receive. this might mean there is no free college for the profession you choose but so be it. we have it for teachers and there are other fields that would warrant investment as well.

Everyone studying could give back to society in some way. It doesn't really need to be related to the degree, honestly. I'd expect this to be paid work, though, because most folks can't just go without income for 1-3 years giving back to the community. This would simply wind up being civil service work for the most part.

Most folks can train as a CNA and do some sort of home health care, for example. Most folks have the ability to work in school kitchens, provide janitorial services for schools, hospitals, and government buildings. Many folks have the capacity to work in day care centers, as substitute teachers, bringing meals to the elderly, mowing lawns for folks that need it, different sorts of service for parks and other public places, and so on.

You can specialize this for some areas: Art degrees? Make beautiful areas. Theater? Free to the public plays. Language degrees? Help out at community centers or translate for folks that need it.

These things allow for necessary training - like plumbers, electricians, car mechanics, business managers, and so on - that aren't traditionally the "give back to the community" sorts of jobs, yet are pretty good to have. Including all sorts of schooling allows for a better educated, well-rounded society in general. As a bonus, the civil service will give folks a chance to be around people they might not otherwise meet.

We can do this before, during, or after college. Part time or full time.

I'd also exempt some folks. Doctors, nurses, teachers, and anyone else in such roles - the folks that by the nature of their jobs, give back to the community and are better off simply doing their jobs as soon as possible.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#445

Post by jpambrun »

avip wrote: post #395
geff82 wrote: post #391

What a surreal discussion about something obvious: University and college should be free for everyone. First, this is a great equalizer in the positive way: it does not depend on how wealthy your parents are, so you get an equal opportunity. Second: the society as a whole benefits from well educated people. Accounts need well trained doctors, doctors need well trained accountants, both need an engineer to craft them…

Always replace "free" with "I'm paying for you". I don't know what's "obvious" about me paying your tuition fees. For once, I may be happy to fund your auto-mechanic studies as I know I'll need you to fix my car. But if you're studying ancient Akkadian I'm less inclined to pay your bills.

Because you will get your investment back tenfold with imposition? This is proven to work in many counties..

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#446

Post by Broken_Hippo »

mprev wrote: post #292
aabajian wrote: post #4

This is amazing. I graduated from medical school two years ago with $300,000 in debt. I'm a software developer on the side and would love to stop residency to try a healthcare startup and/or pursue a research, but the risk is too great - I need the attending salary to pay off the debt.

I think the debt level is crazy. But it sounds like you wish you’d had a free medicine degree so that you could be free not to practise medicine. I’d think if you get the degree for free then you almost should feel more obligated to practise.

Um... we do kind of need some research doctors. It might not be traditional practice, but how else are we going to advance medicine? I would think similarly about doing things with a healthcare startup - doctors are in the unique position of understanding medicine to a degree that makes it more likely to base the startup around actual facts instead of simply hiring a practicing doctor as a consultant for the project.

There are more roles in medicine than simply delivering care.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#447

Post by scaasic »

alasdair_ wrote: post #289
monocasa wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK. The same thought process led me to not being able to complete college due to financial reasons. Despite being emancipated, FAFSA still considers you a dependent until you're 24. I was told that only with documentation of leaving an abusive household would a dependency exception grant be applied. So according to FAFSA I was supposed to use all this money that I didn't have to pay for college. By 24 I had dropped…

>Despite being emancipated, FAFSA still considers you a dependent until you're 24. It's ridiculous. Parents divorced and one parent is an asshole? All they need to do is refuse to hand over their tax returns. Parent remarried? FAFSA wants to see the tax returns of the step-parent and takes THEIR income into account, even if the marriage only occurred the previous year. Needing parental tax returns is a ridiculous thi…

Actually in a divorce scenario, FAFSA only requires information about the custodial parent’s household (so if you’re independent you can effectively choose which one). But yes, doesn’t change the fact that the whole concept is dumb. If they’re using tax returns to determine ability to pay, they should also follow the IRS’s rules on dependency.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#448

Post by Broken_Hippo »

brtknr wrote: post #290

I do not live in the US and therefore I am not sure why medicine has been singled out as a worthy profession to receive subsidy over many others? Don’t those in the medical profession get paid reasonably well over there? Aren’t there other professions equally necessary for a functional society that don’t get compensated as well as they should like teachers, social workers and those in the voluntary sectors who would…

The expense of medical school makes going unreachable for a portion of people. The pay comes later, after all the schooling is complete, and then paying back the loans can still be a burden. From what I have seen, anyway.

And yes, there are other professions equally necessary. To be fair, though, most of those jobs don't require the same level of debt either, and are more obtainable by folks with lower incomes pre-schooling.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#449

Post by IncRnd »

rrcaptain wrote: post #369
xtreme wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely not a free market. If the government didn't guarantee student loans, the banks would have been a lot more conservative in giving out loans. In fact, this is easily the biggest factor in the rapid rise in tuition.

The biggest factor in the rise in tuition is easily austerity policies lowering in-state school budgets.

As the government applies ever greater amounts of money to pay for tuition, tuition rises. That's simple economics. You can read about the facts here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/prestoncooper2/2017/02/22/how-u...

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#450

Post by IncRnd »

andrepd wrote: post #358
CrazyPyroLinux wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent posts detail the ways the government has distorted the free market, and your takeaway was that this is the free market's fault...? So was the '06 housing bubble was the free market's fault as well?

Quite so. It was the "free market" that gave out those loans, it was the "free market" that repackaged the CDOs knowing full well the repercussions in case of defaults, it was the "free market" that stacked rating agencies, regulators, courts, even academia, to prevent their cash cow from going away, or from suffering any kind of personal responsibility for their crimes.

You are confusing a free market with a government controlled market.
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