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Why Facebook is losing the war on hate speech in Myanmar

reuters.com

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Re: Why Facebook is losing the war on hate speech in Myanmar

#41

Post by LoSboccacc »

helloindia wrote: post #28
ardy42 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really don't see why Facebook is blamed for this. That ethnic tension was present way before Facebook even existed. I think it's because they were given ample, clear warnings that their platform was being used to incite ethnic hatred and genocide, but chose to do nothing for years . I don't think they would be getting so nearly so much blame if they hadn't been so utterly negligent about the problem. They didn't…

I recently reported a post made in a regional language(language for which I'm sure Facebook doesn't have any translator/interpreter) as hate speech. I got a response from Facebook saying the said post doesn't violate Facebook's community guideline.

they only care if they can get sued for it: that's why for example anti-white hate speech is not actioned. people love to think it's a global conspiracy but the reality is much simpler, they don't define hate speech, laws do. unless they are at risk for litigation, they won't remove posts.

Re: Why Facebook is losing the war on hate speech in Myanmar

#42

Post by [deleted] »

tomc1985 wrote: post #23
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #5

I really don't see why Facebook is blamed for this. That ethnic tension was present way before Facebook even existed. It was kept in check by an authoritarian military dictatorship and then bubbled up in the transition to more democracy, which really shouldn't have been unexpected. Facebook was just there at the wrong time, and happened to be the way people were communicating at that time; Aung San Suu Kyi has also g…

Facebook is riding in on its royal horses trying to connect (read: own the primary means of communication) the world like all the classically imperialist westerners before them. The first thing they teach you in international business and/or marketing is that cultural considerations will destroy you if you do not devote effort to addressing them. If, in building a hyperlocal product (like facebook), you do not take t…

[deleted]

Re: Why Facebook is losing the war on hate speech in Myanmar

#43

Post by LoSboccacc »

charlesism wrote: post #20
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge of course, is multifaceted: 1. It's not a trivial problem to be able to identify what is hate speech in a regional dialect automatically 2. It sets a problematic precedent if Facebook throws 100s of - hard to find, hard to pay and hard to support - native language local reviewers at every place where Facebook could be abused. I'm no Facebook apologist, however I recognize how hard of a technical problem…

> It's not a trivial problem to be able to > identify what is hate speech in a regional > dialect automatically This sentiment, which I read repeatedly, really irritates me. Most of us program here. It's not that hard a problem! When social media execs claim it is, what they really mean is "it's a hard problem to solve for us , because we are unwilling to risk losing any percentage of account sign-ups ever , under an…

natural language processing is like one of the hardest problems that's left to crack, don't be so dismissive about it

i.e:

"get rid of all black people"

"get rid of all black people unemployment problems"

"get rid of all black people unemployment problems sending them back to Africa"

this can be expanded almost infinitely in every direction, and we're not even beginning with the false positive problems.

"I hate black cars"

so no, it's not just a claim that it's an hard problem.

Re: Why Facebook is losing the war on hate speech in Myanmar

#44

Post by pjc50 »

charlesism wrote: post #20
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge of course, is multifaceted: 1. It's not a trivial problem to be able to identify what is hate speech in a regional dialect automatically 2. It sets a problematic precedent if Facebook throws 100s of - hard to find, hard to pay and hard to support - native language local reviewers at every place where Facebook could be abused. I'm no Facebook apologist, however I recognize how hard of a technical problem…

> It's not a trivial problem to be able to > identify what is hate speech in a regional > dialect automatically This sentiment, which I read repeatedly, really irritates me. Most of us program here. It's not that hard a problem! When social media execs claim it is, what they really mean is "it's a hard problem to solve for us , because we are unwilling to risk losing any percentage of account sign-ups ever , under an…

It's a problem that can't be reliably solved by machines yet, so they end up having to hire moderators. Which is a pretty miserable job and also hard to standardise.

Re: Why Facebook is losing the war on hate speech in Myanmar

#45

Post by pjc50 »

perfmode wrote: post #21
droopyEyelids wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your perspective is an interesting distillation of a popular meme. In it's abstract form, the idea is something like "Anything I do is justified, because if I didn't do it, someone else would." From the way I see the world, it seems completely insane but it obviously seems like common sense to a huge part of the population. I just don't get it! How many other Facebook sized companies, with Facebook's staff of enginee…

efficient market hypothesis?

EMH is literally the "P=NP" of economics.

Re: Why Facebook is losing the war on hate speech in Myanmar

#46

Post by magnetic »

charlesism wrote: post #20
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge of course, is multifaceted: 1. It's not a trivial problem to be able to identify what is hate speech in a regional dialect automatically 2. It sets a problematic precedent if Facebook throws 100s of - hard to find, hard to pay and hard to support - native language local reviewers at every place where Facebook could be abused. I'm no Facebook apologist, however I recognize how hard of a technical problem…

> It's not a trivial problem to be able to > identify what is hate speech in a regional > dialect automatically This sentiment, which I read repeatedly, really irritates me. Most of us program here. It's not that hard a problem! When social media execs claim it is, what they really mean is "it's a hard problem to solve for us , because we are unwilling to risk losing any percentage of account sign-ups ever , under an…

> This sentiment, which I read repeatedly, really irritates me. Most of us program here. It's not that hard a problem!

What solution do you think would work?

Re: Why Facebook is losing the war on hate speech in Myanmar

#47

Post by vowelless »

intended wrote: post #35
CaptainZapp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a company is able to censor pictures of breast feeding mothers, or even worse, of iconic historical pictures[1] on an industrial scale, they should be damn well able to moderate speech, which leads to genocide and mass murder and of which they're warned multiple times by a number of organisations. Fucking hypocrites doesn't even start to describe such behavior. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phan_Thi_Kim_Phuc

As much as I would like to join the FB bashing - I must not because it would be at the cost of solutions to the real problem. MODDING is HARD. It scales like shit, and people regularly find ways to screw with algorithms. It’s fractal complexity: you end up spending many many hours of compute for not moving the needle.

Facebook has about 45,000 employees today. I'm sure they can manage.

Re: Why Facebook is losing the war on hate speech in Myanmar

#48

Post by imgabe »

ardy42 wrote: post #7
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #5

I really don't see why Facebook is blamed for this. That ethnic tension was present way before Facebook even existed. It was kept in check by an authoritarian military dictatorship and then bubbled up in the transition to more democracy, which really shouldn't have been unexpected. Facebook was just there at the wrong time, and happened to be the way people were communicating at that time; Aung San Suu Kyi has also g…

> I really don't see why Facebook is blamed for this. That ethnic tension was present way before Facebook even existed. I think it's because they were given ample, clear warnings that their platform was being used to incite ethnic hatred and genocide, but chose to do nothing for years . I don't think they would be getting so nearly so much blame if they hadn't been so utterly negligent about the problem. They didn't…

If the lynch mobs were being organized over the telephone, would it be the telephone company's responsibility to intercept the communications and stop it?

If not, what makes Facebook different? Do we want Facebook to be the arbiter of what we are allowed to say to each other, or do we want them to be a neutral carrier for communications?

Re: Why Facebook is losing the war on hate speech in Myanmar

#49

Post by pjc50 »

krasin wrote: post #12
toomanybeersies wrote: post #11

There has been a big problem in India with lynch mobs being formed in Whatsapp groups, over various unsubstantiated rumours, including apparent child snatchers travelling through villages [1]. This raises an interesting cross section of moral issues. Obviously end-to-end encryption is good for a lot of reasons. But end-to-end encryption is one of the reasons that these lynchings have been able to happen. These kinds…

>But end-to-end encryption is one of the reasons that these lynchings have been able to happen Have all participants of the lynchings being prosecuted? Enforcing civil and criminal codes is enough to stop them. There's no need to blame end-to-end encryption. It's not the tool, it's the people.

No, because the rule of law has largely collapsed and, like lynchings everywhere, they happen with the complicity of local law enforcement.

Re: Why Facebook is losing the war on hate speech in Myanmar

#50

Post by orbifold »

intended wrote: post #35
CaptainZapp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a company is able to censor pictures of breast feeding mothers, or even worse, of iconic historical pictures[1] on an industrial scale, they should be damn well able to moderate speech, which leads to genocide and mass murder and of which they're warned multiple times by a number of organisations. Fucking hypocrites doesn't even start to describe such behavior. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phan_Thi_Kim_Phuc

As much as I would like to join the FB bashing - I must not because it would be at the cost of solutions to the real problem. MODDING is HARD. It scales like shit, and people regularly find ways to screw with algorithms. It’s fractal complexity: you end up spending many many hours of compute for not moving the needle.

Which is why the first thing that occurred to basically anyone ethical is that it would be very hard to create a social media platform that it would be really hard to prevent it from being used for harm.
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