End of Greek Aid Package as Country Faces Demographic Crisis • Hacker News Board

Re: End of Greek Aid Package as Country Faces Demographic Crisis

#11

Post by Tade0 » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 8:49 AM UTC

ravingraven wrote: post #8

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #2

>There is almost no work -- the main sources of income are beekeeping and a bit of forestry. There's no tourism, even though, according to UNESCO, the air here is cleaner than almost anywhere else in Europe. One of the greatest things the tech industry could do to decrease the economic inequality due to location would be to embrace remote work. Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for…

>Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for its economy. I guarantee that this village has no internet (other than 3/4G with a data cap).

That's not a hurdle that can't be overcome. I spent a year with such a connection and a 14GB data cap being shared with my SO.

If you go easy on the netflix/youtube/videoconferencing you're good.

Amazingly enough voice-only hangouts work pretty well at 32kbps.

One problem I do se though is what if such a developer wants to start a family? I'm not sure the availability of schools is too good in such areas.

Re: End of Greek Aid Package as Country Faces Demographic Crisis

#12

Post by Flavius » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 8:50 AM UTC

ravingraven wrote: post #8

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #2

>There is almost no work -- the main sources of income are beekeeping and a bit of forestry. There's no tourism, even though, according to UNESCO, the air here is cleaner than almost anywhere else in Europe. One of the greatest things the tech industry could do to decrease the economic inequality due to location would be to embrace remote work. Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for…

>Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for its economy. I guarantee that this village has no internet (other than 3/4G with a data cap).

I don't know where you live, but in certain locations in Europe (villages, small cities) you can get decent internet. Unlimited 4G/5G is also gonna happen in a few years.

Re: End of Greek Aid Package as Country Faces Demographic Crisis

#13

Post by deninho » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 8:52 AM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #2

>There is almost no work -- the main sources of income are beekeeping and a bit of forestry. There's no tourism, even though, according to UNESCO, the air here is cleaner than almost anywhere else in Europe. One of the greatest things the tech industry could do to decrease the economic inequality due to location would be to embrace remote work. Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for…

Unfortunately, in remote greek villages, there is nothing to attract you. Old houses in bad condition, no infrastructure (no fast and kinda reliable internet connection, some don't even have 3G or 4G signal), nothing for entertainment other than the traditional coffee shop, almost no young people to socialize with, and most important, there is no willing from the government, local or centralized, to help improve living conditions there.

They are beautiful for a trip, but not to live forever.

As a matter of fact, Greece is not attractive for a young person to live and work here.

Re: End of Greek Aid Package as Country Faces Demographic Crisis

#14

Post by oblio » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 8:53 AM UTC

ravingraven wrote: post #8

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #2

>There is almost no work -- the main sources of income are beekeeping and a bit of forestry. There's no tourism, even though, according to UNESCO, the air here is cleaner than almost anywhere else in Europe. One of the greatest things the tech industry could do to decrease the economic inequality due to location would be to embrace remote work. Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for…

>Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for its economy. I guarantee that this village has no internet (other than 3/4G with a data cap).

You think that the Apple that built the $5bn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Park can't drag a handful of pitiful fiber optic cables 500 miles to where they're needed, if they really wanted? :)

Re: End of Greek Aid Package as Country Faces Demographic Crisis

#15

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 8:54 AM UTC

eafkuor wrote: post #4

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #2

>There is almost no work -- the main sources of income are beekeeping and a bit of forestry. There's no tourism, even though, according to UNESCO, the air here is cleaner than almost anywhere else in Europe. One of the greatest things the tech industry could do to decrease the economic inequality due to location would be to embrace remote work. Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for…

> Imagine what even having 10 developers living in the village could do for its economy. Could it potentially increase house prices and make them unaffordable for other people?

Who are these other people of which you speak?

Re: End of Greek Aid Package as Country Faces Demographic Crisis

#16

Post by shard972 » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 8:54 AM UTC

ravingraven wrote: post #7

>It's surprising because economic liberalism doesn't have any deep roots in Greece. There is no liberal party. The Greeks traditionally think in terms of left and right. A) There is a liberal party in Greece (just as much as there is a liberal party in Germany or France), the people just don't vote for it. B) Liberalism and "laissez-faire thinking" are right wing, I can't see another way of thinking about that. I am…

Liberalism itself isn't right wing at all. Consider that in the USA at the moment liberalism is most concentrated within the democratic party as most neo-liberals have left the party post Trump.

Steve Schmidt and Joe Scarborough are two obvious examples of this shift.

Re: End of Greek Aid Package as Country Faces Demographic Crisis

#17

Post by guiriduro » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 8:54 AM UTC

antouank wrote: post #10

> She wants to abolish Greek clientelism. Although every politician has promised this since taking office, none has succeeded. For centuries, the Greek administration was little more than an excuse for legal nepotism. Clientelism was the functional principle of society. Its roots reach into the Ottoman era, when clan leaders represented the Greeks to the Ottoman authorities, and they have continued to this day. Jobs…

I'm not sure that's radically different from many other places. In Spain you have the common practice "enchufes" (plugged-in - somebody put in place by connections rather than ability), Italy too.

Even supposedly enlightened Anglo-saxon economies have their old boys networks (especially board rooms), and everywhere they exhort the idea that networking is the way to get ahead (over say, education and objective blind interview procedures).

Re: End of Greek Aid Package as Country Faces Demographic Crisis

#18

Post by _xzxj » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 8:56 AM UTC

shard972 wrote: post #16

ravingraven wrote: post #7

>It's surprising because economic liberalism doesn't have any deep roots in Greece. There is no liberal party. The Greeks traditionally think in terms of left and right. A) There is a liberal party in Greece (just as much as there is a liberal party in Germany or France), the people just don't vote for it. B) Liberalism and "laissez-faire thinking" are right wing, I can't see another way of thinking about that. I am…

Liberalism itself isn't right wing at all. Consider that in the USA at the moment liberalism is most concentrated within the democratic party as most neo-liberals have left the party post Trump. Steve Schmidt and Joe Scarborough are two obvious examples of this shift.

Just because the US Democratic party is associated with economic liberalism doesnt mean it isnt right-wing.

Re: End of Greek Aid Package as Country Faces Demographic Crisis

#19

Post by baud147258 » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 8:57 AM UTC

>With the help of French officials, Gerovasili wants to lay a new foundation for the Greek administration.

I'm laughing at the irony of asking French official for administrative reforms. I mean each time in France the government tries an administrative reform we're either getting strikes and protests devolving in the usual riots or a reform that's either useless or make things worse. No reforms has succeeded to bring any positive change here, so it's pretty stupid to ask the French on how to reform, it's like asking a mole what colours look like.

Re: End of Greek Aid Package as Country Faces Demographic Crisis

#20

Post by pjc50 » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 8:58 AM UTC

ravingraven wrote: post #7

>It's surprising because economic liberalism doesn't have any deep roots in Greece. There is no liberal party. The Greeks traditionally think in terms of left and right. A) There is a liberal party in Greece (just as much as there is a liberal party in Germany or France), the people just don't vote for it. B) Liberalism and "laissez-faire thinking" are right wing, I can't see another way of thinking about that. I am…

I'm not sure liberalism has to be right-wing, but it's undeniable that blind application of economic liberalism somehow turns into removing worker protections and rising inequality.

(Again we have the problem of political labels)