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24-core CPU and I can’t type an email

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Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu w/Gnome is possibly the worst offender. I actually like Gnome a lot but anytime I leave my PC on for more than a day the UI gets incredibly sluggish. Just moving windows around gets choppy and there is a annoying pause whenever I click the application launcher (happens even without the animation). I've also found macOS provides the smoothest experience. I haven't found W10 that bad, but I haven't used it that…

I've found alt-f2 then r (ie. restarting gnome) puts it back in as good a state as a fresh boot. Sometimes my extensions won't load and this also restarts those.

This doesn’t work under Wayland. Is there a way to something similar on Wayland.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email

#182
i love this article, it does show some of the bloat of modern operating systems etc. but really that bloat can be controlled and tamed. This kind of technical 'solution' to one problem which is causing other subtle issues, and eating away at our resources is a big issue though in a lot of modern systems. There are so many 'hidden' or sneaky mechanisms which can have bad effects on other programs if they aren't well understood.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email

#183
post #46

I just kind of figured we'd stop having UI lag by now. I work on a 24 core workstation with 64GB of RAM and things lag all the time. Not slow to complete, like jittery key entry and non-responses. Haven't we figured out thread prioritization by now? Can't we make sure something draws 60 times per second while things are going on in the background? My Android Studio build should be totally isolated from my inbox. I kn…

This isn't meant to be an especially religious comment, but I regularly switch back and forth between OSX and Windows 10 and wanted to make mention of the differences. I also use Ubuntu fairly regularly but only over ssh so I'll discount it from this comparison. Both OSX and Windows 10 do suffer from UI lag but, in my experience, it is far worse on Windows 10 to the point where I have come to absolutely detest Window…

A brand new laptop I bought this year can't run Windows 10, the system is basically unusable. Not a cheap laptop, either, it was one of the more expensive ones. It runs Ubuntu no problem. All of Microsofts products seem to have latency issues, and I still can't figure out for the life of me why it takes longer to open a file in Visual Studio or in Word on my gaming desktop than it does to load a current year $60 video game. I wish designers focused what they call "gamefeel" in video games: how quickly, clearly, and satisfyingly does the program react to user input.

Edit: on the other hand, computers do start up a heck of a lot faster than they used to.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email

#184
post #35

Interesting story in particular, but in general, performance and memory behave like any other resource that is plentiful: they get used up until things are slowish again. Like road space. Things get added on top of each other until the reduction in speed becomes visible. Because these days, unlike in the 90's, it's no help waiting for the next Pentium processor to come out this usually results in a heavy optimisation…

The move from CRT to LCD adds a few milliseconds depending on the screen. We're so used do it by now, that typing on old hardware is almost jarring. It feels almost TOO responsive.

Latency is not everything. Moving from CRT to LCD probably saved my eyesight from degrading 10 years too soon.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email

#185

It seems many comments missed the point. The article is not about how bloated modern software is, how many useless features and programs are wasting CPU cycles for pointless jobs, etc. ( Yes, modern software is bloated, for this reason, I'm using the MATE desktop on a minimum Gentoo installation, but this is not what the article is about. ) It is describing how web browser, a piece of software with extremely high inh…

> The questions worth discussing are

Interesting that you ask how to diagnose and manage the complexity, but not how to avoid it. Do we really need a more or less complete OS+VM (aka web browser) running on top of another OS (Windows etc.) to read e-mails?

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email

#186

It seems many comments missed the point. The article is not about how bloated modern software is, how many useless features and programs are wasting CPU cycles for pointless jobs, etc. ( Yes, modern software is bloated, for this reason, I'm using the MATE desktop on a minimum Gentoo installation, but this is not what the article is about. ) It is describing how web browser, a piece of software with extremely high inh…

agree, this kind of issues exists in any highly complicated systems which need to take into account memory security etc. I dont think a lot of people realise that modern browsers are about as complicated as the operating systems they run in and have about as much counter measures for security problems as the OS undernearth it. To manage these systems resources securely and not have them fight eachother in the process is an incredibly complicated and tedious job.

That being said i do agree with a lot of people there is a lot of bloat. But often this bloat is caused by lack of understanding of this complexity in what they are building software. If things like this are more generally known and understood problems like this memory issue in google application would be less.

my own solution to my hate for bloat is to write my own software from scratch. and before i complete that lifetime task i feel it's unfair to complain at others who spend their entire lifetime making programs you use because they made it a little too bloated for you due to whatever reasons...

I think for your question worth discussing, why/how this happens, and how to make it easier to diagnose, is that more people like the writer of this blog are so kind as tho share their findings with us :)

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email

#187
I don't mind so much when a single program that I'm using interactively has a pause, even though it's annoying as hell. What really bugs me is that regardless of how many cores I have, there is always one pegged by that annoying background service. If I start up windows, you can bet that windows update will first peg a core for a few minutes. Then the builtin windows antiviris takes over (perhaps because win update wrote some files, who knows), pegging a core for a few more minutes. Then my backup program service (iDrive in this case) pegs a core for a few more minutes. All of these programs I understand why they are running, but despite me setting "quiet hours" and "please backup only at night" etc, they seem to run for several minutes when I least want it. After all these programs are done (or, I have killed their processes and stopped their services more likely), some completely random apps and services seem to always take a core and peg it. SNMP (some network protocol service) often does it for hours on end. Killing it doesn't make anything obvious stop working - so I have no idea why it can use 100% cpu for hours on end. Explorer.exe (the desktop process) often goes into 100% cpu-mode. The "sound graph isolation" service is a common culprit. When doing normal desktop work, this is often barely noticable. But when I boot my windows machine, it's usually to play a game, immediately after startup. And despite having many cores to spare, if one core is pegged, the framerate is 20fps instead of 100fps. This is presumably not because of CPU starvation, but more likely because of competition for memory/cache/storage resources.

I don't understand how all these services must use 100% CPU for minutes, on a fast cpu core, and why they must run ANY logic on startup, which is when the user is most likely to use his machine. Don't even read your app config on start of process. Sleep a few hours and THEN wait until the machine is idle and THEN do logic! Using power save modes is no better. When you take it out of sleep after 12 hours, the services are very eager to check for updates or antivirus or backup again, regardless of time.

I wish windows could just let me use my machine for what I intend to - which is use ALL my cores for ONE foreground application, ONLY. I'd be happy to boot into a freaking "game mode" or "work mode" which is like safe mode and has ZERO crap running (no unnecessary services, no scheduled tasks can start and so on).

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email

#188

It seems many comments missed the point. The article is not about how bloated modern software is, how many useless features and programs are wasting CPU cycles for pointless jobs, etc. ( Yes, modern software is bloated, for this reason, I'm using the MATE desktop on a minimum Gentoo installation, but this is not what the article is about. ) It is describing how web browser, a piece of software with extremely high inh…

And the debugging exercise he went through was insane! I wouldn't have had a clue how to even begin tracking a performance glitch like that that results from an interaction between a very complex program and the OS.

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't meant to be an especially religious comment, but I regularly switch back and forth between OSX and Windows 10 and wanted to make mention of the differences. I also use Ubuntu fairly regularly but only over ssh so I'll discount it from this comparison. Both OSX and Windows 10 do suffer from UI lag but, in my experience, it is far worse on Windows 10 to the point where I have come to absolutely detest Window…

Ubuntu w/Gnome is possibly the worst offender. I actually like Gnome a lot but anytime I leave my PC on for more than a day the UI gets incredibly sluggish. Just moving windows around gets choppy and there is a annoying pause whenever I click the application launcher (happens even without the animation). I've also found macOS provides the smoothest experience. I haven't found W10 that bad, but I haven't used it that…

There's a bad memory leak in gnome-shell which was found & fixed back in March, but the Ubuntu devs still haven't merged the full fix into Bionic for some reason: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-shell/+bug/1672297

Edit: Having tried in on my laptop, installing the gjs + libgjs0g version 1.53.3 debs from http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gjs/ onto a bionic install seems to work fine. Worth trying if this bug is affecting you?

Re: 24-core CPU and I can’t type an email

#190
post #145
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe more developers would make use of it if it was open source, existed for other platforms, and available for languages people actually use on those other platforms.

GCD is. NSOperationQueue is too tightly coupled to Foundation to be useful/relevant on other platforms.

It looks like there's a working GCD port for Linux in https://github.com/apple/swift-corelibs-libdispatch
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