NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students • Hacker News Board

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#391

Post by geff82 » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 6:03 AM UTC

What a surreal discussion about something obvious: University and college should be free for everyone. First, this is a great equalizer in the positive way: it does not depend on how wealthy your parents are, so you get an equal opportunity. Second: the society as a whole benefits from well educated people. Accounts need well trained doctors, doctors need well trained accountants, both need an engineer to craft them a reliable car, etc etc...

Countries like Germany show that university/med school can both be free and high quality. Od course also in Germany some private elite universities exists where you have to pay (it is ok, I like diversity). But to get a perfect career, a state run university is all you need.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#392

Post by aesclepius » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 6:03 AM UTC

cncrnd wrote: post #370

Nasrudith wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps as a back of a line thing - not those about to enter it. It is already infamously grueling. Graduating and being six figures in debt could try the patience of many. "Staying in school in a high stress environment till near my thirties is bad enough without being in debt practically big enough for a house for years afterwards. I'll just go into banking after four years so I can actually enjoy the money while I…

Banking and tech aren't guaranteed the way medicine is. Other fields are result based, and it's often easy to get fired and be replaced. A risk averse person would rather stick to what they know (student life, exams) for a guaranteed reward. The debt isn't really that much. Probably the average is 200k. You can pay that off within about 1-2 years of residency, and interest rates tend to be low since they're low risk…

> The debt isn't really that much. Probably the average is 200k. You can pay that off within about 1-2 years of residency, and interest rates tend to be low since they're low risk loans for banks to give out.

Please try looking at the numbers again. Assuming you pay off undergraduate loans, a private medical school will cost $30-45k a year (not including living costs, so tack on another $30k a year), so assuming ($150-$300,000) will be total assumed debt (not including books, unexpected expenses, etc) during those 4 years. Residency salary is basically stuck at around $50k/yearly for 3-5 years (based on residency type), you can contribute back to loans but there's not a chance you're paying that off in residency. (source: current medical resident)

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#393

Post by aesclepius » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 6:06 AM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #330

chimeracoder wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As I understand it, salaries are only one of the many ways that doctors make money. Many "providers" are doctor-owned. No, nowadays, private practices are a dying breed. Most physicians are, in fact, salaried. And that salary isn't actually all earnings, because a large chunk of their business and professional expenses (insurance, continuing education, various licenses, etc.) all have to be paid out-of-pocket. Thes…

But the earnings aren't all salaries either. As I understand it, doctors earn salaries from employers, but as I understand it, they are also leading investors in provider systems and in the malpractice insurance system. They're not getting poor. The only thing I'm suggesting is that reducing the cost of care will make them poorer, but that could be offset by attracting people to be doctors who don't come from the mos…

> but as I understand it, they are also leading investors in provider systems and in the malpractice insurance system.

You're completely wrong. There's actually the Stark law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stark_Law) set up to prevent doctors from owning industry-related materia or self-referring to any entity with financial relationship. Not only that, but out of my network (100+ other physicians) very few are the 'leading investors' in provider systems, and zero have any skin in the malpractice insurance system. The MBAs run the numbers game, the MDs just work long hours.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#394

Post by WillPostForFood » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 6:27 AM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #176

WillPostForFood wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that for a worthless degree in antaractic penguin studies from Shady St Univ. You still graduate unemployed, unskilled, but instead of you paying the debt, someone else does. Also, with no skin in the game, I’m sure college will get even less serious.

What's wrong with zoology / ornithology today?

You can study whatever you want, wherever you want, without criticism or question if you are willing to pay your own way.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#395

Post by avip » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 6:54 AM UTC

geff82 wrote: post #391

What a surreal discussion about something obvious: University and college should be free for everyone. First, this is a great equalizer in the positive way: it does not depend on how wealthy your parents are, so you get an equal opportunity. Second: the society as a whole benefits from well educated people. Accounts need well trained doctors, doctors need well trained accountants, both need an engineer to craft them…

Always replace "free" with "I'm paying for you". I don't know what's "obvious" about me paying your tuition fees. For once, I may be happy to fund your auto-mechanic studies as I know I'll need you to fix my car. But if you're studying ancient Akkadian I'm less inclined to pay your bills.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#396

Post by HatchedLake721 » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 6:57 AM UTC

dboreham wrote: post #251

0xcafecafe wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Geniune question: why does a degree cost that much? Is it the teaching staff salaries? Is it extremely state of the art equipment? Is it possible to disrupt that?

Same reason gold costs a lot: many people want it and there's limited supply.

What? High demand made a degree skyrocket to $300,000? Half of Europe provides free education and doesn’t have a quarter of a million cost per student even close.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#397

Post by Karishma1234 » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 7:08 AM UTC

geff82 wrote: post #391

What a surreal discussion about something obvious: University and college should be free for everyone. First, this is a great equalizer in the positive way: it does not depend on how wealthy your parents are, so you get an equal opportunity. Second: the society as a whole benefits from well educated people. Accounts need well trained doctors, doctors need well trained accountants, both need an engineer to craft them…

"Free" means someone else should be paying for it. Now, as an average income guy I will never earn as much as a Doctor and will vehemently oppose any move to pay for these would be rich people's education. If the degree is worth something, please pay it yourself.

>Countries like Germany show

All these kids are more than welcome to go to Germany and save $500K in tuition fees.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#398

Post by orbifold » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 7:09 AM UTC

avip wrote: post #395

geff82 wrote: post #391

What a surreal discussion about something obvious: University and college should be free for everyone. First, this is a great equalizer in the positive way: it does not depend on how wealthy your parents are, so you get an equal opportunity. Second: the society as a whole benefits from well educated people. Accounts need well trained doctors, doctors need well trained accountants, both need an engineer to craft them…

Always replace "free" with "I'm paying for you". I don't know what's "obvious" about me paying your tuition fees. For once, I may be happy to fund your auto-mechanic studies as I know I'll need you to fix my car. But if you're studying ancient Akkadian I'm less inclined to pay your bills.

If you are not super rich most likely you are paying a tiny fraction towards the higher education of someone else's child. Plus if you have kids you benefit from the same system. I actually know several people with useless degrees that now have well paid jobs here in Germany, one studied Ancient Greek and Latin and is now at Germanies federal reserve the other studied art history and is now a SAP consultant. Those degrees are also much cheaper than training everyone in STEM fields.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#399

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 7:16 AM UTC

Karishma1234 wrote: post #397

geff82 wrote: post #391

What a surreal discussion about something obvious: University and college should be free for everyone. First, this is a great equalizer in the positive way: it does not depend on how wealthy your parents are, so you get an equal opportunity. Second: the society as a whole benefits from well educated people. Accounts need well trained doctors, doctors need well trained accountants, both need an engineer to craft them…

"Free" means someone else should be paying for it. Now, as an average income guy I will never earn as much as a Doctor and will vehemently oppose any move to pay for these would be rich people's education. If the degree is worth something, please pay it yourself. >Countries like Germany show All these kids are more than welcome to go to Germany and save $500K in tuition fees.

[deleted]

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#400

Post by hayd » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 7:18 AM UTC

orbifold wrote: post #398

avip wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always replace "free" with "I'm paying for you". I don't know what's "obvious" about me paying your tuition fees. For once, I may be happy to fund your auto-mechanic studies as I know I'll need you to fix my car. But if you're studying ancient Akkadian I'm less inclined to pay your bills.

If you are not super rich most likely you are paying a tiny fraction towards the higher education of someone else's child. Plus if you have kids you benefit from the same system. I actually know several people with useless degrees that now have well paid jobs here in Germany, one studied Ancient Greek and Latin and is now at Germanies federal reserve the other studied art history and is now a SAP consultant. Those de…

Math is pretty cheap too.