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How teenage poker prodigy Steven Silverman won, and lost, millions

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Re: How teenage poker prodigy Steven Silverman won, and lost, millions

#21
post #2

Interesting article, although it kinda reinforces a false dichotomy - just because this player had an unhealthy lifestyle playing poker, doesn't mean you can't play poker professionally while living a perfectly healthy and otherwise normal life. In fact, the article keeps mentioning the "lavish" lifestyle of the poker players as a given, when that is also just a choice they make. I've always enjoyed playing poker. I'…

There actually are several aspects of being a poker player (online) that make it really hard, though surely not impossible, to live a normal life. You have very little interaction with other people, your working hours are partially out of your control, and it is incredibly stressful/tiring. I know a few people who managed to combine poker with a normal life, but I know way more who utterly failed. Sincerely, A guy wh…

The stresses of being a pro poker-player are roughly the same as being a start-up founder. My problem was it just got to be too much poker - poker for work, poker for fun, and I couldn't talk to anyone about anything but poker. The same thing happens with start-ups, but the conversation doesn't always start, "So I had KK in the big blind...," so it's more interesting.

Re: How teenage poker prodigy Steven Silverman won, and lost, millions

#25
post #19
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Your job becomes preying on people with gambling problems Or perhaps you have a gambling problem, but are successful enough to deny it. FTA: > "Looking back, what I've figured out," he says, "is that no matter the amount of money poker players win, they still want more. You're never happy."

I'm not sure you can really call this a "problem". That's like saying someone has an "entrepreneurship" problem because they keep wanting to create new companies from zero. If they're successful at it, why not?

I was trying to point out that successful poker players might be a part of the same group they're "preying on" - those with gambling addictions. Of course, as you said, they're successful, so the addiction might not be considered a problem.

However, if it is an addiction they may be financially successful, but unable to psychologically satisfy their their appetite for money or risk.

I wouldn't say that any serial startup founder has an "entrepreneurship problem", but if they were never satisfied with their accomplishments, I would view that as a negative.

The quote from the article was: >"[T]hey still want more. You're never happy."

I would consider that anyone who repeats a cycle of behaviour with the goal of achieving happiness or satisfaction but who always feels disappointed or unsettled might have a problem.

Re: How teenage poker prodigy Steven Silverman won, and lost, millions

#27
post #25
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you can really call this a "problem". That's like saying someone has an "entrepreneurship" problem because they keep wanting to create new companies from zero. If they're successful at it, why not?

I was trying to point out that successful poker players might be a part of the same group they're "preying on" - those with gambling addictions. Of course, as you said, they're successful, so the addiction might not be considered a problem. However, if it is an addiction they may be financially successful, but unable to psychologically satisfy their their appetite for money or risk. I wouldn't say that any serial sta…

It seems to me "always wanting more and never being happy" is a pretty common human condition, especially in the west. Hell, the entire advertising industry thrives on reminding us of this condition. A good book that deals with this is "The Happiness Trap" by Russ Harris. I've really enjoyed applying his techniques to my life and being more content because of it.

Re: How teenage poker prodigy Steven Silverman won, and lost, millions

#28
post #16

Can anyone point me towards some good online resources about getting started in online poker?

www.deucescracked.com I played online for a living for about a year and a half, and they're awesome.

I've never been on deucescracked, but as a long-time acquaintance (and poker foe) of Joe Tall, DeathDonkey and Jay Rosenkratz, I'd be surprised if it wasn't good.

I can still remember the exact moment back in 2002 or 2003 where I realized just how much than me better Joe Tall was. We were having a cigarette near the Foxwoods poker room and he reviewed the action on a few hands we'd just played in a 20/40 game, and he remembered them in more detail than me, but he also processed the detail differently to emphasize different aspects of my game.

I was a winning player but after that night I stopped playing for a month, did nothing but study books, analyze hands and sessions, and grind out math to see if some of my assumptions about lines against various hand ranges were correct.

After that I got a lot better, jumped limits, and ended up meeting DeathDonkey in a 100/200 game at Commerce and again realized I was outclassed.

I'd say I owe them a debt of gratitude, but I'm pretty sure I already paid it at the tables.

Re: How teenage poker prodigy Steven Silverman won, and lost, millions

#29
post #2

Interesting article, although it kinda reinforces a false dichotomy - just because this player had an unhealthy lifestyle playing poker, doesn't mean you can't play poker professionally while living a perfectly healthy and otherwise normal life. In fact, the article keeps mentioning the "lavish" lifestyle of the poker players as a given, when that is also just a choice they make. I've always enjoyed playing poker. I'…

There actually are several aspects of being a poker player (online) that make it really hard, though surely not impossible, to live a normal life. You have very little interaction with other people, your working hours are partially out of your control, and it is incredibly stressful/tiring. I know a few people who managed to combine poker with a normal life, but I know way more who utterly failed. Sincerely, A guy wh…

I agree many people utterly fail, because I think that's largely because the past-time itself attracts those who have difficulties with addiction, time-management, and social interaction.

You list some things that make it really hard to live a normal life, but I disagree with some can offer counter-points to others.

You say there is little interaction with other people. This is true for many but doesn't have to be the case. I spend a lot of 'work time' talking with like-minded professionals, studying together or just daily banter. I probably have more social interaction through work than the time I worked in a small development company, and certainly more during my periods of (failing to) run startups.

You say working hours are partially out of your control, but with most forms of poker you can work any time of the day (literally any time in 24 hours, 7 days a week) - some times may be better than others, depending on the game you play. There's a lot to be done away from the table if the games are quiet. Compare this to the lack of flexibility with any other job: either a rigid 9-5, or at least restrictions on when business is to be done (conference calls, deadlines).

It can be stressful and tiring, but listening to some start-up stories here on HN, it can hardly compare! Some of you guys are working yourselves to death! Certainly you can put in long hours in poker, but it's a daily choice. The more hours at the table, the more money. I also believe that poker is actually fairly low-variance compared to other jobs, such as a running a start-up: Long days with long nights, hacking at weekends, all for a very high risk of failure months or even years down the line. With poker you can't count on a weekly (or even monthly) pay-check but in the long term, you cash in with regularity

Personally I like to work around 3 hours a day, 7 days a week. I might put in a short morning session, and a short evening session. Doing this it feels like I have all the day off to spend socialising, hacking on some pet project, relaxing. You don't have to hit the high-stakes to make a living from poker. In the "5-hour-work-week" concept of salary you earn very high, because I have no commute and flexibility to live anywhere in the world. I have moved continent 3 times in the last 3 years. I can jump on a plane and visit friends anywhere, and as long as I have an internet connection I know I can be there, on holiday and making money at the same time. And if you manage your time correctly, you should have time to fully develop other projects, be they startup ideas, or just other, more life-fulfilling hobbies.

There are certainly negatives to the job, but - at least to me - there's an overwhelming number of positives that many (including a lot of professionals) just don't focus on. If you take advantage of what the job has to offer there's no reason it should be the lonely, frustrating grind that many feel; quite the contrary.

Re: How teenage poker prodigy Steven Silverman won, and lost, millions

#30
post #2

Interesting article, although it kinda reinforces a false dichotomy - just because this player had an unhealthy lifestyle playing poker, doesn't mean you can't play poker professionally while living a perfectly healthy and otherwise normal life. In fact, the article keeps mentioning the "lavish" lifestyle of the poker players as a given, when that is also just a choice they make. I've always enjoyed playing poker. I'…

"But only after reading Paul Graham's articles on Wealth, I realized why making a fortune from poker always seemed "empty" to me: you're not really creating wealth that way."

You needed to read PG's essays to figure that out? Gee, no wonder some people joke that HN and YC look like a cult at times. Do all your thoughts on wealth-creation stem from PG's gospel?

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