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Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#191

Post by anonu »

wowzerz wrote: post #161
anonu wrote: post #76

This is a fascinating story. But I always think about what the motives are to reveal such information. What you read is always different than the actual... In a separate note, I'm not sure technically what the right solution is, but I imagine an encrypted stenographic message on a popular peer to peer internet service would be the best way to avoid detection. ... When the entire web is being monitored.

It’d be best to imagine something else. Stenographers are much too busy in court, recording transcripts of proceedings as they transpire. They wouldn’t have time to help avoid detection. I think it’s probably better to use a stegosaurus, given their spiked tail, and boney plates, which will scare off any attackers. Or maybe just safely conclude that casually pondering what might or might not work isn’t good enough, a…

You created a throwaway to troll me about my misspelling. Bravo Bravo... Tool...

Instead of fostering a constructive discussion... you do this. And you get upvoted. HN isn't what it used to be...

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#193

Post by TangoTrotFox »

the_duke wrote: post #174
TangoTrotFox wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spies are people that turn against their own country, often for little more than a payoff, and participate in activities that can and have resulted in the death, torture, and worse of countless individuals. For instance Augusto Pinochet, as just one example among many, was the direct and orchestrated product of a CIA "regime change" -- an activity that at it's most fundamental level relies on traitors. Spying is taki…

What does that have to do with my assertion? Are you saying it is fine to execute relatives of spies?

And do you know what a straw man is? The reason I ignored suggestion of the wife being executed in my response is likely the same reason that the author's assertion was cut from the piece. Its based on one source referencing exactly one individual. This not only substantially increases the probability of this being a lie (consider: traitorous spies have, by definition, already shown an interest in hurting their nation and the people of it for money, and are willing to lie, cheat, and steal to achieve that end), but provides 0 information on what happened and why - which leaves the reader, you in this case, left to fill in the gaps with the most heinous story imaginable.

You were implicitly stating you oppose the execution of spies. And that is certainly your right. At the same time, I think many people do not consider what traitorous spies actually are and do. I'm also generally against the death penalty, but not unconditionally - traitorous espionage would certainly be near the top of the shortlist of things that I think fully justify execution.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#194

Post by King-Aaron »

TangoTrotFox wrote: post #193
the_duke wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that have to do with my assertion? Are you saying it is fine to execute relatives of spies?

And do you know what a straw man is? The reason I ignored suggestion of the wife being executed in my response is likely the same reason that the author's assertion was cut from the piece. Its based on one source referencing exactly one individual. This not only substantially increases the probability of this being a lie ( consider: traitorous spies have, by definition, already shown an interest in hurting their nati…

Interestingly, the parent comments that you are replying to are directly discussing the execution of the relatives.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#195

Post by jackvalentine »

noir_lord wrote: post #70
jackvalentine wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understood it, it was a system they were using in the Middle East (developed in house) and they took it to China to use. Might be wrong though.

That's crazy. Threat model from China in terms of infosec is very different than middle East countries (except isreal perhaps). Not that it was a good idea in either region.

I see you too read the article!

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#196

Post by wowzerz »

anonu wrote: post #191
wowzerz wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’d be best to imagine something else. Stenographers are much too busy in court, recording transcripts of proceedings as they transpire. They wouldn’t have time to help avoid detection. I think it’s probably better to use a stegosaurus, given their spiked tail, and boney plates, which will scare off any attackers. Or maybe just safely conclude that casually pondering what might or might not work isn’t good enough, a…

You created a throwaway to troll me about my misspelling. Bravo Bravo... Tool... Instead of fostering a constructive discussion... you do this. And you get upvoted. HN isn't what it used to be...

HN has only ever been civilized by way of preferential moderation. Don’t delude yourself with rose colored glasses. Just continue to take my comments personally, as if you were being attacked by a close friend.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#197

Post by waterbear »

jmnicolas wrote: post #27

It seems that the CIA is more embarrassed that their IT has been breached by the Chinese than the death of people that trusted them.

Another way to look at it is to consider that it’s really embarassing to suffer an extremely high cost in lives lost, over a misconfigured Group Policy Object or Windows Registry Key or /etc/hosts file.

Something like that is akin to trusting cheap sheetrock/gypsum board and a couple of molly screws to support the weight of some priceless oil painting in a massive ornamental frame.

To see a priceless thing destroyed, but for want of a proper wall to mount it on is insult to injury.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#198

Post by cascom »

pc86 wrote: post #128
cascom wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my brief view into a federal agency: Employee breakdown is as follows: 1/6 extremely capable and dedicated high performers 1/6 extremely capable and dedicated but go home at 5pm 1/3 average (not going to screw things up massively, but also never going to make a large contribution) 1/3 shocking (as in where do you even find people this useless and disagreeable - if you’re lucky their managers put them in an offic…

So 1/3 high performers, 1/3 average, and 1/3 low performers? Not a particularly amazing revelation. And why the differentiation between folks who leave after 8 hours of work and those that don't?

The low performers are beyond low performers, the 6th decile at the federal govnerment would be the bottom decile at most larger well run private organizations. Again i am talking white collar federal government.

At the margin, in corporate america salaried professionals have a focus on deadlines and deliverables (because a. If the company goes under They’re out of a job and b. If they consistently miss deadlines they’re out of a job), so if that means the occasional late night, or an an expectation around a 10 hr work day - ok. On the federal government side the attitude CAN be “if it’s late, it’s late - what are they going to do, fire me?” Without some sense of urgency (however that is inspired) productivity is bad and tends to get worse.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#199

Post by etrevino »

nasredin wrote: post #154
baybal2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How stupid it is to spend so much effort on compartmentalising their intel net in the country, but have all spies report by dialing in into the same website in a country employing few brigades worth of people reading tcpdumps 24/7? Compare that to one way coded messages over hf radio: a place for pick up of a dead drop in n days is broadcasted, then it is picked up by a man who reads it, destroys it, and gtfos from t…

There's still "number stations" broadcasting over shortwave radio. If it ain't broke, don't fix it?!

Number stations, though, are usually used for things like one-time pads or to send a previously agreed upon command. Detailed instructions are not really what number stations are good for.

Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents

#200

Post by sevensor »

dsl wrote: post #186
baybal2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How stupid it is to spend so much effort on compartmentalising their intel net in the country, but have all spies report by dialing in into the same website in a country employing few brigades worth of people reading tcpdumps 24/7? Compare that to one way coded messages over hf radio: a place for pick up of a dead drop in n days is broadcasted, then it is picked up by a man who reads it, destroys it, and gtfos from t…

> Compare that to one way coded messages over hf radio Having a shortwave radio in your possession is justification enough to haul you in for questing in some countries. There is also relatively little "radio traffic" to inspect relative to internet traffic.

Perhaps, but given the volume and variety of modern electronics, it's easier than ever for a receiver to look like something else, at least if you don't crack open the case. An antenna can be harder to conceal, but you can often pick up transmissions by tying into unconventional antennas, like the rebar in a slab of concrete, or a long metal railing. You could probably fit a purpose-built receiver / demodulator for FT8 in a usb stick.
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