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NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

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Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#331

Post by curun1r »

raverbashing wrote: post #227
pitaj wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College is expensive because so much money is available in the forms of subsidies and loans. If the federal government stopped guaranteeing loans, and cut back on other subsidies, the cost of college would be much much lower.

And of course schools need 2 or 3 administrators per faculty member, earning more than faculty "because they are more important" naturally.

Don't forget the gymnasiums, stadiums, aquatic centers and all the other high-priced facilities that schools have constructed to compete for those easy-to-get student dollars. Because who can learn in an environment without swimming pools?

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#332

Post by nimish »

chimeracoder wrote: post #314
oillio wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mechanism by which you default on a loan is bankruptcy. If you can't discharge a loan in bankruptcy, you can't default on it. Some people never make enough money to pay it off, after which the government will pay the loan off after a few years. The lender gets payed anyway. These are risk free loans for lenders.

> The mechanism by which you default on a loan is bankruptcy. If you can't discharge a loan in bankruptcy, you can't default on it. This is absolutely, completely, 100% wrong. Defaulting on a loan means that the borrower has failed to repay according to the agreed-upon terms. > Some people never make enough money to pay it off, after which the government will pay the loan off after a few years. The lender gets payed…

The spread between them is very low, much lower than another kind of unsecured loan would be to young adults with no credit.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#333

Post by drak0n1c »

bawana wrote: post #145

They need warm bodies (residents are cheap labor) to run the hospital (the money machine that gets thousands of dollars per xray, per drug, etc). A steady supply of med students who are already situated in NYC saves them the cost of recruiting residents from afar. And who knows how much money they save by cutting the bureaucracy to administer tuition, loans, Sally Mae compliance, etc.

Full ride for all students is extraordinarily expensive. This project is probably not compatible with some ulterior plan to significantly increase class sizes. If anything, this will add pressure to shrink class sizes.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#334

Post by fipple »

I can't think of anyone who needs free tuition less than medical students. When they finish their residency they enter a highly protected, highly paid workforce and can easily pay back their loans. Yeah it sucks until you're a doctor but NYU could fund only the interest so that graduates could start paying back their loans when they're 35 or so.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#335

Post by ams6110 »

curun1r wrote: post #331
raverbashing wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And of course schools need 2 or 3 administrators per faculty member, earning more than faculty "because they are more important" naturally.

Don't forget the gymnasiums, stadiums, aquatic centers and all the other high-priced facilities that schools have constructed to compete for those easy-to-get student dollars. Because who can learn in an environment without swimming pools?

For the most part, those types of facilities are paid for out of athletic department funds and donations.

yes the sorts of facilities that universities build for athletics are extravagant and many would say ridiculous, but they really don't have a bearing on the cost of tuition.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#336

Post by thedufer »

nostromo wrote: post #220
pitaj wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College is expensive because so much money is available in the forms of subsidies and loans. If the federal government stopped guaranteeing loans, and cut back on other subsidies, the cost of college would be much much lower.

This seems to be a pattern in America. People call for X to be more affordable > government subsidizes X > X absorbs all subsidies and becomes even more expensive > people call for X to be socialized. Maybe instead we should start to unwind student financing. For example: let students discharge student loans via bankruptcy. That would give financiers pause and would put an upper bound on what many universities could…

> let students discharge student loans via bankruptcy

This is a fine idea, but you have to recognize that this just means approximately no one gets student loans (and those who do get them don't need them). Think about it: if you come out of college with, say, $20k of debt (granting that this might bring down prices) and no assets, bankruptcy is a very tempting option. Student loans are just inherently problematic - the people who need them have no assets, and the thing they pay for can't be used to secure the loan.

Sure, prices would come down, but partially because so many people would be priced out and demand would drop. The solution has to involve more than that.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#338

Post by Gibbon1 »

thedufer wrote: post #336
nostromo wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a pattern in America. People call for X to be more affordable > government subsidizes X > X absorbs all subsidies and becomes even more expensive > people call for X to be socialized. Maybe instead we should start to unwind student financing. For example: let students discharge student loans via bankruptcy. That would give financiers pause and would put an upper bound on what many universities could…

> let students discharge student loans via bankruptcy This is a fine idea, but you have to recognize that this just means approximately no one gets student loans (and those who do get them don't need them). Think about it: if you come out of college with, say, $20k of debt (granting that this might bring down prices) and no assets, bankruptcy is a very tempting option. Student loans are just inherently problematic -…

> Think about it: if you come out of college with, say, $20k of debt (granting that this might bring down prices) and no assets, bankruptcy is a very tempting option.

You actually have to convince a judge that's appropriate. And the court has a wide variety of tools at it's disposal to reach an equitable decision. From telling the petitioner to get stuffed all the way to telling the creditors to get stuffed.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#339

Post by JauntyHatAngle »

thedufer wrote: post #336
nostromo wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a pattern in America. People call for X to be more affordable > government subsidizes X > X absorbs all subsidies and becomes even more expensive > people call for X to be socialized. Maybe instead we should start to unwind student financing. For example: let students discharge student loans via bankruptcy. That would give financiers pause and would put an upper bound on what many universities could…

> let students discharge student loans via bankruptcy This is a fine idea, but you have to recognize that this just means approximately no one gets student loans (and those who do get them don't need them). Think about it: if you come out of college with, say, $20k of debt (granting that this might bring down prices) and no assets, bankruptcy is a very tempting option. Student loans are just inherently problematic -…

A potential solution is HECS here in Australia for university.

It's a government loan that anyone who goes to a HELP approved course can obtain (nearly all proper university courses) and it gets taxed out of your future earnings, and is indexed at (almost) CPI (e.g. this year it was indexed at 2%).

There is still argument here on whether it should be free (University used to be free in Australia) or a higher rate of repayment (the government tried to index it at the bond rate which would make it an indefinite tax on a high proportion of those with HECS debts...) but it does work in the sense that it doesn't drive anyone into the ground and allows anyone with high enough marks to go to uni without worrying about course fees - and it still will eventually be repaid.

Can someone with better knowledge on these areas than I tell me why a loan system like HECS would or wouldn't work in the US?

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#340

Post by Analemma_ »

thedufer wrote: post #336
nostromo wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a pattern in America. People call for X to be more affordable > government subsidizes X > X absorbs all subsidies and becomes even more expensive > people call for X to be socialized. Maybe instead we should start to unwind student financing. For example: let students discharge student loans via bankruptcy. That would give financiers pause and would put an upper bound on what many universities could…

> let students discharge student loans via bankruptcy This is a fine idea, but you have to recognize that this just means approximately no one gets student loans (and those who do get them don't need them). Think about it: if you come out of college with, say, $20k of debt (granting that this might bring down prices) and no assets, bankruptcy is a very tempting option. Student loans are just inherently problematic -…

Bull. Student loans did not become non-dischargeable until the mid-2000’s; and before that plenty of people got loans and there was no epidemic of graduates immediately declaring bankruptcy. You’re spouting propaganda talking points from predatory lenders.
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