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NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

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Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#321

Post by Kenji »

rcdmd wrote: post #24
glitchc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I may ask, how exactly do you have the time to be both a resident and a software developer? There aren't enough hours in the day. Do you even sleep?

Heh, I'll chime in as I did residency at a busy program and advanced my coding skills on the side. Even working 80hr+ weeks you find downtime. Some of that you use for sleeping and studying. With whatever's left, some of my co-residents liked to read. Others had sort of social lives outside the hospital. For me, I coded with most of my freetime. It helped scratch an itch-- problems are solved with 100% certainty, err…

> It helped scratch an itch-- problems are solved with 100% certainty

You didn't get deep into software development if you say that. No offence ;)

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#322

Post by mcny »

lovich wrote: post #303
mcny wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example: let students discharge student loans via bankruptcy. Ataturk's reply to this is dead below but I must agree with the (spirit of the) comment. While I support letting students discharge loans via bankruptcy, I VEHEMENTLY oppose making this applicable to loans already signed. This is absolutely ridiculous and anyone who supports this kind of position should be barred from public office on grounds of insa…

I'd say that a politician who stares at a problem head on and refuses to deal with it, because we didn't deal with it in the past, is the insane one. Student loans have become incredibly predatory and the banks were the ones who had the information to realise these were bad loans, but they lobbied the government to make it so they had to do no due diligence. Now they've fucked up and unless something is done about th…

> It's already a house of cards and we should just deal with it instead of tying large portions of the population to these bad deals

I guess the taxpayer is kind of screwed when it comes to Federal loans. I still think it is a bad idea to retroactively change laws even if the idea seems popular. As far as I understand, an individual's loan obligations don't automatically transfer to their surviving family members so if you have a massive student loan it will die with you.

If the loans were predatory, lets ban them going forward. If we find illegal activity and predatory behavior I am all for prosecuting bankers and throwing people in prison. In fact, I will go further and say we should rid of all the silliness of deductions and credits in income tax toward education loans as well.

New York made a good first step with its excelsior program. While I don't like the income ceiling for the program, I think overall this is the way forward. I think we should expand the program to allow people to go to school part time for free. Private schools can either compete with free public education or shut down.

> I'd say that a politician who stares at a problem head on and refuses to deal with it, because we didn't deal with it in the past, is the insane one.

I am all for dealing with the problem but I still firmly and politely OPPOSE any effort to make it easier to discharge existing loans with taxpayer money. I am not an expert on this matter though so I don't know much about it. All I know is we cannot give a handout to people who went to college by signing a loan letter and pay for it with resources that could have gone to people who didn't go to college.

I think the first good step is to make private education loans go away the same way as any other private loan going forward. I don't know how we can apply this to direct federal loans.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-is-federally-gu... According to this web page:

> As of June 30, 2010, Congress stopped the guaranteed student loan program for newly issued loans.

> If a borrower defaults on a guaranteed loan, the federal government pays the bank and takes over the loan. The federal government pays approximately 97% of the principal balance to the lender. At that point the federal government owns the loan and the right to collect payments on the loan.

Yeah, no. If you have a guaranteed loan (which apparently you can't get anymore), I say you are on the hook for it for life especially if you start making money later.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#323

Post by testrun »

pitaj wrote: post #297
megamindbrian2 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like government should pay people subsidiaries directly. Like an HSA but for more than just health. If you use the account for school it's tax free otherwise there are fee or the transaction is declined. How much more amazing would service from utilities be if they had to go through customer to get the same subsidiaries they get now.

Or, we could try just doing none of that, like back when college was actually affordable!

How?

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#324

Post by agitator »

paulie_a wrote: post #320
agitator wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fair. I'm saying all higher education, so if upending your life doesn't work for you, you could choose a local school or community college. Also the regular admissions system would be in place, so higher achievers would still exclusively get into more prestigious schools, it's just that money won't be a factor.

While this is in the broader scope but after five years of graduation, the college you attended is irrelevant. The prestigious name is meaningless.

Personally from experience, the prestige comes with network and the network is where it's at. The connections you have definitely grease the upward escalator.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#325

Post by mikec3010 »

Retric wrote: post #270
mikec3010 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the reverse of what he said was true: that tuition has risen artificially because of all the free money. But yeah I'm also skeptical that tuition would decrease even close to the same way if the money were removed. I think they'd cut supply before they cut price. Especially with the all too common "but you need a degree" fallacy

Let's ballpark things. Assuming 1 teacher making 100k teaching 20 students * 5 classes * 3 credit hour classes a semester ~= 333$ / credit hour. 128 credit hour degree ~= 43k over 4 years. And that's assuming relatively small average class size and ignoring adjuncts etc. Yet, many schools are charging 4-10 times that much. The question becomes what are the 3+ other people doing if not teaching and can you get rid of…

> Assuming 1 teacher making 100k

Assume a PhD student making a $35k stipend or a foreign grad student making $14/hr.

This covers a good 25%-40% of the curriculum, depending on the institution.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#326

Post by chrisseaton »

oillio wrote: post #312
chimeracoder wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think not being able to default on your student loans is the main factor in rising costs. There is no reason not to give out a student loan of any amount if it is guaranteed money. Just because the loans can't be discharged during bankruptcy proceedings doesn't mean the lender gets their money back. Default rates are high (and rising). The lender may get some money, but that doesn't mean they get their principal…

The mechanism by which you default on a loan is bankruptcy. If you can't discharge a loan in bankruptcy, you can't default on it. Some people never make enough money to pay it off, after which the government will pay the loan off after a few years. The lender gets payed anyway. These are risk free loans for lenders.

> The mechanism by which you default on a loan is bankruptcy. If you can't discharge a loan in bankruptcy, you can't default on it.

I think you may be confusing the terms 'default' and 'discharge', and have the ordering wrong.

You may be in default, which may lead to bankruptcy, which may lead to the debt being discharged.

Discharging the debt does not lead to defaulting on it.

This helpful Wikipedia paragraph should clear things up for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_(finance)#Distinction_...

Note that 'default' is simply 'a debtor has passed the payment deadline on a debt they were due to pay'. 'Bankrupt' is 'a legal finding that imposes court supervision over the financial affairs of those who are insolvent or in default'.

See how 'bankrupt' is done to someone who is already either insolvent or in 'default'?

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#327

Post by colek42 »

sf_rob wrote: post #32

I'll probably be downvoted on a forum like this, but I worry about the most successful universities using their funds to subsidize those who would be fine without it. I was actually made aware of this by a wealthy Stanford alumni which has a fairly broad program for undergraduate tuition assistance. Graduates of mid/low tier universities seem more and more likely to have to compete with better credentialed people wit…

University may be affordable without loans if it were not for all of the capex expenditures every year and needless administration. Education has a huge HR problem. Lots of people doing nothing and it is sucking our young dry.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#328

Post by parrellel »

heartbreak wrote: post #199
monocasa wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK. The same thought process led me to not being able to complete college due to financial reasons. Despite being emancipated, FAFSA still considers you a dependent until you're 24. I was told that only with documentation of leaving an abusive household would a dependency exception grant be applied. So according to FAFSA I was supposed to use all this money that I didn't have to pay for college. By 24 I had dropped…

> now putting me outside of the income level where I'd get even federal loans (and quite frankly I still can't take on that debt load). There are no income limits on federal student loans.

There are definitely limits on the nice ones.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#329

Post by drak0n1c »

rubicon33 wrote: post #302
Havoc wrote: post #296

How? Medical is one of the most expensive courses to provide. I mean I love this, but who is footing the bills on this & are we sure they won't taint the results with ulterior motives...

Seriously. I don't understand how this is possible. Nothing in life is free... Someone, or something, is footing this bill - no?

It will be paid for in the form of reduced class size growth and its endowment funded by billionaire alums - maybe they are betting on future alum donations as well. Unclear if that's sustainable.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#330

Post by analog31 »

chimeracoder wrote: post #135
analog31 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, salaries are only one of the many ways that doctors make money. Many "providers" are doctor-owned. Perhaps a more general statement would be that decreasing the cost of medical care will unavoidably decrease the income and/or wealth of doctors. I don't see a problem with this, so long as doctors can earn a decent living. An idea I've thought about is that medical school is free, but doctors primar…

> As I understand it, salaries are only one of the many ways that doctors make money. Many "providers" are doctor-owned. No, nowadays, private practices are a dying breed. Most physicians are, in fact, salaried. And that salary isn't actually all earnings, because a large chunk of their business and professional expenses (insurance, continuing education, various licenses, etc.) all have to be paid out-of-pocket. Thes…

But the earnings aren't all salaries either. As I understand it, doctors earn salaries from employers, but as I understand it, they are also leading investors in provider systems and in the malpractice insurance system.

They're not getting poor. The only thing I'm suggesting is that reducing the cost of care will make them poorer, but that could be offset by attracting people to be doctors who don't come from the most affluent backgrounds.

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