NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students • Hacker News Board

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#311

Post by SahAssar » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 10:03 PM UTC

wenc wrote: post #256

jordigh wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rarely hear that anymore. I almost always hear "alumni" in all cases. I've tried saying to the librarians of my alma mater that I'm an alumnus and they repeat back to me, "oh, you're an alumni, sure, let me get you alumni access to our system." Maybe it's common somewhere else to make those distinctions, but they're not common at McGill.

Unfortunately, common or not, the usage of "alumni" in that context is incorrect. It may be a bit pedantic to insist on correctness in Latin, but all other schools use the term correctly and it doesn't reflect well on a well-regarded school to use the term incorrectly.

Isn't language defined by common use over time?

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

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Post by oillio » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 10:19 PM UTC

chimeracoder wrote: post #307

AngryData wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think not being able to default on your student loans is the main factor in rising costs. There is no reason not to give out a student loan of any amount if it is guaranteed money. And there are many people who struggled to graduate highschool, or people who have no idea what they want to do in life in any way, that are getting crazy large loans to go to very expensive and demanding schools and and are very likely…

> I think not being able to default on your student loans is the main factor in rising costs. There is no reason not to give out a student loan of any amount if it is guaranteed money. Just because the loans can't be discharged during bankruptcy proceedings doesn't mean the lender gets their money back. Default rates are high (and rising). The lender may get some money, but that doesn't mean they get their principal…

The mechanism by which you default on a loan is bankruptcy. If you can't discharge a loan in bankruptcy, you can't default on it.

Some people never make enough money to pay it off, after which the government will pay the loan off after a few years. The lender gets payed anyway. These are risk free loans for lenders.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

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Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 10:27 PM UTC

brtknr wrote: post #290

I do not live in the US and therefore I am not sure why medicine has been singled out as a worthy profession to receive subsidy over many others? Don’t those in the medical profession get paid reasonably well over there? Aren’t there other professions equally necessary for a functional society that don’t get compensated as well as they should like teachers, social workers and those in the voluntary sectors who would…

There are a couple arguments:

1. This isn't an "either/or" proposition. This is one university that is making medical education free. There are other universities and programs that have free or low cost programs for the jobs you discuss.

2. Medical school education is phenomenally expensive in the US, unlike training for the other jobs you give as examples, and this expense has a structural impact that negatively impacts our health care system. The high cost of education is one reason that so many doctors opt for higher paying specialties that have higher salaries but don't necessarily result in an overall healthier society.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

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Post by chimeracoder » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 10:28 PM UTC

oillio wrote: post #312

chimeracoder wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think not being able to default on your student loans is the main factor in rising costs. There is no reason not to give out a student loan of any amount if it is guaranteed money. Just because the loans can't be discharged during bankruptcy proceedings doesn't mean the lender gets their money back. Default rates are high (and rising). The lender may get some money, but that doesn't mean they get their principal…

The mechanism by which you default on a loan is bankruptcy. If you can't discharge a loan in bankruptcy, you can't default on it. Some people never make enough money to pay it off, after which the government will pay the loan off after a few years. The lender gets payed anyway. These are risk free loans for lenders.

> The mechanism by which you default on a loan is bankruptcy. If you can't discharge a loan in bankruptcy, you can't default on it.

This is absolutely, completely, 100% wrong. Defaulting on a loan means that the borrower has failed to repay according to the agreed-upon terms.

> Some people never make enough money to pay it off, after which the government will pay the loan off after a few years. The lender gets payed anyway.

This isn't really true either. The lender is not guaranteed to be paid their principal back.

> These are risk free loans for lenders.

If these were truly risk-free, then the interest rate on private student loans would be roughly equal to the current actual risk-free rate of investment (because any new lender could always capture additional loans by undercutting their competitors and still make a profit).

Except, that's not true at all. The interest rate on private loans is quite high. In fact, it's significantly higher than the interest rate on mortgages, which are loans backed by collateral that can actually be seized.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

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Post by true_tuna » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 10:28 PM UTC

Medical school may be free, but the WSJ isn’t.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

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Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 10:35 PM UTC

sf_rob wrote: post #32

I'll probably be downvoted on a forum like this, but I worry about the most successful universities using their funds to subsidize those who would be fine without it. I was actually made aware of this by a wealthy Stanford alumni which has a fairly broad program for undergraduate tuition assistance. Graduates of mid/low tier universities seem more and more likely to have to compete with better credentialed people wit…

[deleted]

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#317

Post by viburnum » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 10:36 PM UTC

sf_rob wrote: post #32

I'll probably be downvoted on a forum like this, but I worry about the most successful universities using their funds to subsidize those who would be fine without it. I was actually made aware of this by a wealthy Stanford alumni which has a fairly broad program for undergraduate tuition assistance. Graduates of mid/low tier universities seem more and more likely to have to compete with better credentialed people wit…

You mean parents. All this money you're talking about comes from old people.

If you're worried about inequality, you need to take the money away from the rich people, not worry about this or that little thing.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#318

Post by monocasa » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 10:47 PM UTC

heartbreak wrote: post #199

monocasa wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK. The same thought process led me to not being able to complete college due to financial reasons. Despite being emancipated, FAFSA still considers you a dependent until you're 24. I was told that only with documentation of leaving an abusive household would a dependency exception grant be applied. So according to FAFSA I was supposed to use all this money that I didn't have to pay for college. By 24 I had dropped…

> now putting me outside of the income level where I'd get even federal loans (and quite frankly I still can't take on that debt load). There are no income limits on federal student loans.

You're totally right, I misremembered that part.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

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Post by hexhex » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 10:51 PM UTC

wpasc wrote: post #14

This is awesome! So many medical students are kinda forced into more profitable healthcare practices than ones which people need more desperately (e.g. plastic surgery vs rheumatology). I especially love that this was done with private fundraising over government funding. Philanthropy can be effective, often far more so than governments!

I would hardly say it shows the effectiveness of philanthropy - this is just one college and has very limited effects on the healthcare system as a whole. In Germany for instance higher education is free everywhere, I don't see how this could work with private fundraising.

As an European I always find the dichotomy "government vs people" strange. If the state pays for something, it's solidarity, not communism.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#320

Post by paulie_a » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 10:57 PM UTC

agitator wrote: post #193

QML wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with a lot of your points, but the way to increasing the base level of education isn’t through making all colleges free — it’s through investing in and making community colleges free. Why? If we’re trying educate the entire populace instead of a few high achieving high schoolers, we should recognize that a majority of people can’t afford to up-end their lives, move far away, and spend 4 years getting a degree…

This is fair. I'm saying all higher education, so if upending your life doesn't work for you, you could choose a local school or community college. Also the regular admissions system would be in place, so higher achievers would still exclusively get into more prestigious schools, it's just that money won't be a factor.

While this is in the broader scope but after five years of graduation, the college you attended is irrelevant. The prestigious name is meaningless.