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NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

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Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#261

Post by et1337 »

eugeniub wrote: post #258
pitaj wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College is expensive because so much money is available in the forms of subsidies and loans. If the federal government stopped guaranteeing loans, and cut back on other subsidies, the cost of college would be much much lower.

Considering the millions of people struggling to pay for college and desperate for lower tuition, this is totally untrue. This is like saying, "if we didn't have food stamps, food would be half the cost."

That's reductive. Food and education are very different industries, and the scale of subsidies to individuals is HUGE in education compared to food stamps.

Plus, the nature of the subsidy is important. State-sponsored universities don't seem any more culpable than private ones in this mess.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#262

Post by megamindbrian2 »

NTDF9 wrote: post #238
nostromo wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a pattern in America. People call for X to be more affordable > government subsidizes X > X absorbs all subsidies and becomes even more expensive > people call for X to be socialized. Maybe instead we should start to unwind student financing. For example: let students discharge student loans via bankruptcy. That would give financiers pause and would put an upper bound on what many universities could…

> People call for X to be more affordable > government subsidizes X > X absorbs all subsidies and becomes even more expensive > people call for X to be socialized. The problem is that government subsidizes loans. It doesn't do something like capped match. The government should just say, "We will cover your need-based education burden up to $20,000". Something like this would make most state schools accessible to most…

This sounds like government should pay people subsidiaries directly. Like an HSA but for more than just health. If you use the account for school it's tax free otherwise there are fee or the transaction is declined. How much more amazing would service from utilities be if they had to go through customer to get the same subsidiaries they get now.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#264

Post by tptacek »

hellllllllooo wrote: post #246
rayiner wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're going to really need that military when China, when we make degrees in underwater basketweaving free for everyone and China (which has a sensible approach to what education is and is not valuable) overtakes us economically and technologically.

Sure. Those invisible fighter jets that don't work were a great investment. https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a21957/wtf-35/ The US military is a publicly funded socialist entity. Interesting how that's ok for war but not for education.

By that definition, isn't every military a socialist entity?

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#265

Post by salimmadjd »

sf_rob wrote: post #32

I'll probably be downvoted on a forum like this, but I worry about the most successful universities using their funds to subsidize those who would be fine without it. I was actually made aware of this by a wealthy Stanford alumni which has a fairly broad program for undergraduate tuition assistance. Graduates of mid/low tier universities seem more and more likely to have to compete with better credentialed people wit…

I decided against doing an MD degree at USC because I was shocked by how much money I would have owned at the end of it.

So this is a great news for many people like me. I wish this was around when I was applying.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#266

Post by DoktorEgo »

hooloovoo_zoo wrote: post #95
wpasc wrote: post #14

This is awesome! So many medical students are kinda forced into more profitable healthcare practices than ones which people need more desperately (e.g. plastic surgery vs rheumatology). I especially love that this was done with private fundraising over government funding. Philanthropy can be effective, often far more so than governments!

I predict this will have the opposite effect. This will increase the appeal of NYU leading to stronger students applying/accepting offers of admission who go on to get into higher paying specialties.

It's a bit similar to the test-optional trend in undergraduate admissions. The acceptance count (numerator) generally remains constant, while the application count (denominator) increases as more students see the appeal of omitted test scores. So, the acceptance rate decreases, which can craft a façade of prestige, among other things. Additionally, that increased applicant pool may include some higher-achieving students, likely applying for safety purposes, which can increase prestige if they accept; furthermore, their acceptance pushes otherwise-capable students to a lower priority in the pool.

All in all, in order to effectively analyze these occurrences (particularly in admissions), one must ask: how will the institution benefit? They wouldn't pass these changes otherwise.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#268

Post by ataturk »

nostromo wrote: post #220
pitaj wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College is expensive because so much money is available in the forms of subsidies and loans. If the federal government stopped guaranteeing loans, and cut back on other subsidies, the cost of college would be much much lower.

This seems to be a pattern in America. People call for X to be more affordable > government subsidizes X > X absorbs all subsidies and becomes even more expensive > people call for X to be socialized. Maybe instead we should start to unwind student financing. For example: let students discharge student loans via bankruptcy. That would give financiers pause and would put an upper bound on what many universities could…

The whole non-dischargeable loans thing was to make it possible at all for private lenders to make the loans. If you take that away, the underwriting will not work--the risk is too high, you would have 35% interest rates like on a credit card. Non starter.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#269

Post by FeteCommuniste »

mbrumlow wrote: post #129

I feel like all the collage should be free people are not thinking far enough ahead to what that actually means. 1) A free collage will end up being more like extended high school. 2) At some point new institutes of for pay higher education will pop up. They just won't be called colleges. People who can afford them will clearly have a advantage and top companies will start to seek out people who attended these organi…

If financial risk really encouraged effort and perseverance, we would expect university dropout rates in countries like France or Germany to be far higher than in the US or UK. Is that actually the case?

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#270

Post by Retric »

mikec3010 wrote: post #260
eugeniub wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the millions of people struggling to pay for college and desperate for lower tuition, this is totally untrue. This is like saying, "if we didn't have food stamps, food would be half the cost."

I think the reverse of what he said was true: that tuition has risen artificially because of all the free money. But yeah I'm also skeptical that tuition would decrease even close to the same way if the money were removed. I think they'd cut supply before they cut price. Especially with the all too common "but you need a degree" fallacy

Let's ballpark things.

Assuming 1 teacher making 100k teaching 20 students * 5 classes * 3 credit hour classes a semester ~= 333$ / credit hour. 128 credit hour degree ~= 43k over 4 years. And that's assuming relatively small average class size and ignoring adjuncts etc.

Yet, many schools are charging 4-10 times that much. The question becomes what are the 3+ other people doing if not teaching and can you get rid of that?

PS: And sure some professors make well over 100k and facilities are not free, but again many people even at expensive schools are pulling in less than that.

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