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The Akrasia Effect: Why We Don’t Follow Through on What We Set Out to Do

jamesclear.com

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Re: The Akrasia Effect: Why We Don’t Follow Through on What We Set Out to Do

#91

Post by Sangermaine »

JamesBarney wrote: post #75
whack wrote: post #71

I have a pet theory than the reason people procrastinate, is because they don't concretely identify their future selves, as being the "same person" as their present self. Rather, they view their future self as an abstract person, more akin to a friend, than self. This level of relatedness varies with time as well. People identify very strongly with their future self from tomorrow, perhaps akin to their best friend. B…

I've heard of one technique to fight akrasia which relies on your theory. It's an exercise where you contemplate you future self as a friend, whose is immediately benefits from your actions. So if you're trying to not eat an extra serving of cake you imagine your future self as a friend who gets fat when you eat that extra serving.

"Thank you for letting me enjoy that delicious cake. My life would have been poorer without it. Excellent decision."

"No problem, future me!"

Re: The Akrasia Effect: Why We Don’t Follow Through on What We Set Out to Do

#92

Post by taurath »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #72
whack wrote: post #71

I have a pet theory than the reason people procrastinate, is because they don't concretely identify their future selves, as being the "same person" as their present self. Rather, they view their future self as an abstract person, more akin to a friend, than self. This level of relatedness varies with time as well. People identify very strongly with their future self from tomorrow, perhaps akin to their best friend. B…

I doubt it's that complex. Occam's razor suggests a simpler explanation: there is discomfort in starting a task, therefore people delay starting that task. It's a pain avoidance strategy, which sounds much more likely than some self-referential, future-self theory.

Correlation of that would seem to be that those who are best at dealing with discomfort are the best at doing tasks - I've found that I'm most productive that its less about being able to overcome discomfort, and more about not having the discomfort in the first place. Fear of failure, of not meeting expectations, etc can be put upon one by ones self and also the community. How do they train soldiers to be "doers" at first? They first break down the ego, and then establish fear and punishment based on NOT doing as ordered, so that it is always the path of least resistance and (internal) discomfort to do what is ordered. If you procrastinate up to the point that you have to pull an all nighter to get something done, thats because your fear of not doing the thing is finally present and overwhelming the discomfort to doing the thing.

Finally, "whipping" or punishing ones self into being uncomfortable in order to do the thing primarily just does damage, and builds resistance to even thinking about the subject. Decrease the discomfort in doing the task (by breaking it down, and visualizing what success will reward you with), increase the discomfort for not doing the task (by putting off immediate rewards and gratification until the task is done), and you can ride down the hill instead of pushing upwards.

Re: The Akrasia Effect: Why We Don’t Follow Through on What We Set Out to Do

#93

Post by kentrado »

beat wrote: post #89
edavison1 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wanted to jump in here to say (with the imperfect authority of an undergrad philosophy major) that your characterization of Nietzsche is very wrong. A quick google search provided a slightly more nuanced but still absurdly basic view of Nietzsche's view on selfishness from the man himself: "Self-interest is worth as much as the person who has it: it can be worth a great deal, and it can be unworthy and contempti…

I'd say my characterization lacks nuance. Yes, Nietzsche is greatly caricatured (and this interpretation falls within that), but Simone de Beauvoir's critique of his philosophy and its dangers to freedom are much, much better than this. Nietzsche is a lot better than he's usually given credit for, but there are nonetheless some pretty big gaps in applying his ideas to society. To be really odd here, I quit reading Th…

You haven't adequately criticized Nietzsche for the record. So we can't know if this Simone person is up to something.

Re: The Akrasia Effect: Why We Don’t Follow Through on What We Set Out to Do

#94

Post by beat »

amorphous wrote: post #36
amorphous wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest problem I have with deep work is not that it makes undoubtedly sense and leads to interesting results but to find what to work on. I can't find my deep work. Finding a niche and sticking to it is much harder than performing deep work.

honest question, why does this get downvoted?

Beats me. I mostly get downvoted for violating the political status quo of "What's good for young educated white men is good for everyone" that drives HN. But downvotes happen for all sorts of weird reasons I don't understand.

Re: The Akrasia Effect: Why We Don’t Follow Through on What We Set Out to Do

#95

Post by mistermann »

rosser wrote: post #83
mistermann wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it's very much a thing for Christianity I wonder if you might explain what exactly you mean by this, and to what degree you believe it is a thing. And to be very, very clear: I'm asking this absolutely sincerely. Not in a clever or trolling manner, but rather, I am asking in an epistemological sense.

I grew up in a couple different Christian traditions, and have known and spoken about this question with people with backgrounds, and/or who currently worship in many others. I have friends and family who follow every denomination from Catholic, to Lutheran, to Evangelical, between, and beyond. The notions of Hell and damnation not uncommon, though certainly not universal, in the practice of Christianity, particularl…

I think the general theme is going to be ever-present in any Christian religious teachings, but in your experience, do you feel like "heavy emphasis" was put on that particular idea, and especially as a motivating factor for controlling behavior or allegiance....as a tool to manipulate?

And if it isn't confidential, the people you're familiar with, is that restricted to a fairly tight geographical region, or quite spread out? I'm wondering if perhaps it is the case that there are somewhat distinct regional flavors of religious teaching. If this was the case, with a generally more mobile populace, families often tending to live further apart, one would expect this to decrease over time, especially with young people who've moved away from family, although any number of things could cause a change in younger generations.

Re: The Akrasia Effect: Why We Don’t Follow Through on What We Set Out to Do

#96

Post by aplc0r »

mroll wrote: post #14
beat wrote: post #10

Useful things for those in the struggle... Deep Work , by Cal Newport. An excellent book on how to work on really big ideas/projects effectively, without losing your humanity in the process. This is a must-read for anyone serious about work. Pomodoro Technique. This is well-documented with lots of apps and tools online, but it's pretty simple. Set a 25 minute timer. Work, without interruption, for 25 minutes. When th…

Any programmers here use pomodoro? I expect 25 minute interruptions would do more harm than good for my focus when writing code, especially the continuous expectation that I will be interrupted. I don’t have a pressing interest in finding productivity tips, just curious to hear about programmers who have tried this technique

I tried it and had that issue. Usually break time would happen while I really needed to keep my train of thought. Now I just try to do things in smaller sessions when possible and test often. While tests are running I go for a walk.

However, I have found it to be really nice for my Japanese language study. When I come back after a break I feel any new words or concepts I was learning have solidified a little better than if I were to just keep going.

Re: The Akrasia Effect: Why We Don’t Follow Through on What We Set Out to Do

#98

Post by fyfy18 »

swaggyBoatswain wrote: post #74
olooney wrote: post #3

"Reduce friction to start" is a huge one for me. Especially if "starting" is a bunch of busywork like writing a Dockerfile, initializing a git repo, creating package metadata files, etc. I've found it helpful to just dive in and start writing the "fun" part first and turn it into a "real" project later. Usually after an hour of coding or less I feel I've created something of value that I want to save and reuse so the…

That has always been the biggest turn off for me as well. Setting up everything takes too long and I like just jumping straight into the project. My gym is right behind my desk, I have 0 excuses to workout almost everyday

Could you elaborate more on your workouts? And how well it’s working out?

Re: The Akrasia Effect: Why We Don’t Follow Through on What We Set Out to Do

#99

Post by rosser »

mistermann wrote: post #95
rosser wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a couple different Christian traditions, and have known and spoken about this question with people with backgrounds, and/or who currently worship in many others. I have friends and family who follow every denomination from Catholic, to Lutheran, to Evangelical, between, and beyond. The notions of Hell and damnation not uncommon, though certainly not universal, in the practice of Christianity, particularl…

I think the general theme is going to be ever-present in any Christian religious teachings, but in your experience, do you feel like "heavy emphasis" was put on that particular idea, and especially as a motivating factor for controlling behavior or allegiance....as a tool to manipulate? And if it isn't confidential, the people you're familiar with, is that restricted to a fairly tight geographical region, or quite sp…

How overtly employed varies widely, but yes; generally I did and do see it as a tool of control. That the notion is so widespread gives it social proof, so however contrary to doctrine or scripture it might be, it drives our behavior at a far deeper level.

As for your second question, there's a significant subset of my sample population that's moderately geographically bound (Plains and Upper Midwest), but I have people of faith from all over, including internationally, in my social graph, and see some variation on the notion almost across it.

I agree that as people spread out, the phenomenon tends to diminish. Research has shown that a profoundly effective mechanism for combatting insular beliefs is exposure to people who don't share them. Not enough people do that to meaningfully combat the phenomenon, though; something over half of Americans have never left the country, and the median distance adult Americans live from their mother is, IIRC, under 20 miles.

As well, people who move out of places where Hell is more of a thing may lose the belief, some, but many of them are probably leaving because they don't share the belief, to whatever degree, and people who move to those places might already believe it themselves, or may face a group that's selected, positively or negatively (by people leaving) for holding it.

Re: The Akrasia Effect: Why We Don’t Follow Through on What We Set Out to Do

#100

Post by tzakrajs »

bernardino wrote: post #62
ckosidows wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that when I eliminate forms of entertainment from my life or impose limits I can often go too far and then swing back in the other direction. Your comment seems to indicate you manage your vices similarly. Do you also recede back into them or has this not been a problem for you?

No, I definitely resort back to entertainment every once in a while. I wouldn't go as far to call it a problem though. I suppose entertainment in low doses is fine but entertainment as the main staple of our diet is no good. In terms of deep work, I think it's important to see the side of spectrum of how entertainment only exists to stimulate a neurological response. For instance, think about always refreshing a site…

Good thing you aren't entertained by your work, or you would certainly be a lost soul.
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