NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students • Hacker News Board

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#211

Post by PascLeRasc » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:23 PM UTC

ConfSibi wrote: post #195

jeffreybaird wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Raise the income tax, create a VAT, kill the mortgage-interest tax deduction, add a Financial transaction tax, tax capital gains like normal income, stop subsidizing fossil fuel extraction, add a carbon tax, and lower the threshold for the inheritance tax and raise the percentage.

Making college free is a huge waste of resources. College is largely an exercise in social credentialing and signaling. If we make college free, the people who want to get ahead in society will just go to expensive graduate programs in order to distinguish themselves. Then the discussion will shift to fully funding those programs... Our current system is very fair. Take out a loan if you need to, but make sure your p…

I have some bad news for you: graduate programs are usually fully funded and some PhD students even get a stipend for attending.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#212

Post by rayiner » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:23 PM UTC

jeffreybaird wrote: post #159

WillPostForFood wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that for a worthless degree in antaractic penguin studies from Shady St Univ. You still graduate unemployed, unskilled, but instead of you paying the debt, someone else does. Also, with no skin in the game, I’m sure college will get even less serious.

You prefer an under-educated population? The most valuable asset we have in the technology and service based economies is human capital. We need a creative and educated population to continue to compete. I think we should eliminate all for-profit education and preferably make all universities public.

> You prefer an under-educated population

Who is undereducated? We managed to create a civilization that went to the moon back when the vast majority of people never went to college. Germany continues to be a leading industrial power while lagging most of Western Europe in college statistics (especially "academic" college like we have in the U.S.)

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#213

Post by jsoc815 » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:25 PM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #120

sf_rob wrote: post #32

I'll probably be downvoted on a forum like this, but I worry about the most successful universities using their funds to subsidize those who would be fine without it. I was actually made aware of this by a wealthy Stanford alumni which has a fairly broad program for undergraduate tuition assistance. Graduates of mid/low tier universities seem more and more likely to have to compete with better credentialed people wit…

IDK. The same thought process led me to not being able to complete college due to financial reasons. Despite being emancipated, FAFSA still considers you a dependent until you're 24. I was told that only with documentation of leaving an abusive household would a dependency exception grant be applied. So according to FAFSA I was supposed to use all this money that I didn't have to pay for college. By 24 I had dropped…

> ...FAFSA still considers you a dependent until you're 24. I was told that only with documentation of leaving an abusive household would a dependency exception grant be applied.

Would you mind saying when and by whom you were told this?

Asking because this was not my experience. While I can't remember if I had to/or was able to finagle my parents' info for FAFSA, I do remember having direct discussions w/my school @ the time so that they weren't trying to factor my parents' assets and income into their aid calculation.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#214

Post by CindyCarlson » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:25 PM UTC

chimeracoder wrote: post #63

kaitari wrote: post #50

This is great! Now lets please do the same for nurses and social workers who pay exorbitant tuition rates, too, yet get paid peanuts to be on the frontline of health care.

> Now lets please do the same for nurses and social workers who pay exorbitant tuition rates, too, yet get paid peanuts to be on the frontline of health care. I would not say nurses get paid "peanuts". Not many jobs would let you earn close to $100k in New York City with only a bachelor degree (or in some cases only a two-year associate degree)

4 year bachelor +

4 year md +

3-7 year residency ( hourly pay is ~ 1/4 a nurses on an hourly basis) +

(optional) 1-4 year fellowship (cardiology, surg-sup specialties like trauma, hand surgery, etc) +

(optional) 4 year PhD (20%+ of rad onc physicians have a PhD too.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#215

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:26 PM UTC

ghufran_syed wrote: post #194

jeffreybaird wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume that degrees are "worthless?" How are you defining "worthless?" Based on the research, getting a degree significantly increases your earning potential. But I would argue that even if that wasn't the case and everyone got philosophy, literature, and history degrees, our country would be significantly better positioned globally. And I agree with your statement that the problem starts earlier. Although…

Worthless = "no employer willing to pay good money for the skills or knowledge you acquired"

[deleted]

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#216

Post by adpirz » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:26 PM UTC

gerpsh wrote: post #74

> School officials worry that rising tuition and soaring loan balances are pushing new doctors into high-paying fields and contributing to a shortage of researchers and primary care physicians. I think this is only partially true, because it misunderstands the motivations of many would-be doctors. Sure, the cost of medical education factors into specialty decisions, but as long as derm and ortho are regarded as more…

Is derm really about prestige? Or is it about a relatively high salary with little to no on call time and mostly 9-5 hours?

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#217

Post by rayiner » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:27 PM UTC

maym86 wrote: post #154

kfrzcode wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just make college free. Sure, have some funding ideas?

Sure, reappropriate some of the US military budget ($717 billion). https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-approves-717b-defense-s...

We're going to really need that military when China, when we make degrees in underwater basketweaving free for everyone and China (which has a sensible approach to what education is and is not valuable) overtakes us economically and technologically.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#218

Post by Eridrus » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:30 PM UTC

chimeracoder wrote: post #26

Eridrus wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really interested in this info, can you tell me where you got the 7% from? Are there good in depth breakdowns of this?

It's a fairly easy statistic to find; here's the first hit on Google: https://www.medicalbag.com/finance/examining-physician-salar... One caveat is that oftentimes you'll see higher numbers (in the range of 15-20%) cited, but that's usually because they're not distinguishing between doctors (MDs) and other clinical staff (nurses, physicians' assistants, etc.). In the aggregate, the latter account for about half, or i…

Yeah, individual statistics are easy to find, i was hoping someone had pulled it all together into a detailed report or book or something.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#219

Post by dredmorbius » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:34 PM UTC

jeffreybaird wrote: post #144

kfrzcode wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just make college free. Sure, have some funding ideas?

Raise the income tax, create a VAT, kill the mortgage-interest tax deduction, add a Financial transaction tax, tax capital gains like normal income, stop subsidizing fossil fuel extraction, add a carbon tax, and lower the threshold for the inheritance tax and raise the percentage.

Land, wealth, and other rents taxes.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#220

Post by nostromo » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:34 PM UTC

pitaj wrote: post #208

monocasa wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK. The same thought process led me to not being able to complete college due to financial reasons. Despite being emancipated, FAFSA still considers you a dependent until you're 24. I was told that only with documentation of leaving an abusive household would a dependency exception grant be applied. So according to FAFSA I was supposed to use all this money that I didn't have to pay for college. By 24 I had dropped…

College is expensive because so much money is available in the forms of subsidies and loans. If the federal government stopped guaranteeing loans, and cut back on other subsidies, the cost of college would be much much lower.

This seems to be a pattern in America.

People call for X to be more affordable > government subsidizes X > X absorbs all subsidies and becomes even more expensive > people call for X to be socialized.

Maybe instead we should start to unwind student financing. For example: let students discharge student loans via bankruptcy. That would give financiers pause and would put an upper bound on what many universities could charge.