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NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

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201–210 of 531 posts

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#201
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about the down votes, I didn't mean to ask a rhetorical question. But someone has to pay if not students. Or is that not how it works in this case? Disclaimer: I couldn't read the whole article because I don't have a login to the website.

Donations. And if you don’t mind going through Facebook (no login required) https://www.fullwsj.com/articles/nyu-offers-full-tuition-sch... On a meta level. Can you really be accused of not RTFM if it’s behind a paywall - that doesn’t seem fair.

Weird, still gives me a paywall through that link.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that for a worthless degree in antaractic penguin studies from Shady St Univ. You still graduate unemployed, unskilled, but instead of you paying the debt, someone else does. Also, with no skin in the game, I’m sure college will get even less serious.

You prefer an under-educated population? The most valuable asset we have in the technology and service based economies is human capital. We need a creative and educated population to continue to compete. I think we should eliminate all for-profit education and preferably make all universities public.

Is it possible to simultaneously have an over-educated population and an under-educated population? I am having a hard time squaring the two prevailing ideas on this issue. One is that we need more/free education because an educated population is best. The other is that we need to import vast amounts of new unskilled labor so we have someone to pick our fruit. I realize you only espoused one of these ideas, but I am curious if someone holds both those positions and would help me understand how both can be true at the same time.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#203
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe when most people say “make college free”, they’re referring to a “tuition free” education. There is still a housing cost, which is “skin in the game”.

Eh, my ideal would be like Europe's that gives you a stipend as well to cover room and board. Paying for housing is more than a full time job in a lot of places with universities (particularly the good ones), and ideally we'd want students to be focusing on their studies.

In many of those places in Europe, stipend is really a loan you have to pay back. The terms are regulated but still ain't free money.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK. The same thought process led me to not being able to complete college due to financial reasons. Despite being emancipated, FAFSA still considers you a dependent until you're 24. I was told that only with documentation of leaving an abusive household would a dependency exception grant be applied. So according to FAFSA I was supposed to use all this money that I didn't have to pay for college. By 24 I had dropped…

I agree. Yes, it will cost a lot and yes we need to find a way to fund it, but giving all communities fair access to education is in everyone's best interest. Increasing the base level of education makes everyone a more intelligent, informed citizen and voter, and will have a positive impact on the progression of our country. I think it's a bad idea to be penny pinching in this regard. I also think everyone being edu…

Except colleges won't make people more intelligent. For the most part, it won't even make people more informed. For many people (especially the incremental people that would go to college if it were free), college is an extended 4-year vacation, during which they immediately forget everything they learned, because they never need to use it on the job.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just make college free. Sure, have some funding ideas?

[flagged]

Could you please not post like this? It's not what we're here for and we ban accounts that carry on.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#206
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While "gaining admission to NYU medical school" is likely correlated with good socio-economic background (as do all accomplishment), the correlation is not 100%. You can get into NYU from a poor socio-economic background, if you work hard and attain academic excellence. And while all students will appreciate this discount, it will make more of a difference to those who are not "fine without it", i.e. those below the…

Per your first argument, even granting that admissions is meritocratic / fair for the sake of argument, the education you receive, networks provided, and simple prestige of the school all provide advantages that you will not find to such a degree at a lower tier school. Tuition subsidies adds an additional major advantage of not having the drag of loans slowing your future economic growth. Again, I understand that so…

This argument is fascinating, because you are in effect arguing that people should be rewarded according to their lack of privilege: "we should give these subsidies to students from 'lower-tier schools' rather than students from 'top-tier schools' who are already well on their way to success".

This is the "social justice" argument.

Now let me ask you this:

If you get sick and require surgery, would you rather be treated by the smart, skilled, hard-working doctor who succeeded in everything he tried, including being accepted into a top school?

Or maybe you'd prefer the under-privileged doctor, who never did well academically, and only got into a lower-tier school, but managed to graduate thanks to your social justice subsidy?

Your argument seems to make society more just and equal, but you support it because it is convenient to appear as just person, and you are isolated from the repercussions of your proposal. In reality, your policy will prefer and encourage mediocre doctors over excellent ones, you just hope it won't affect you.

Thankfully, American society is structured in such a way that a top school like NYU can muster the funds required for the subsidy, and thus we will have more excellent doctors, instead of more poor ones.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#207

I feel like all the collage should be free people are not thinking far enough ahead to what that actually means. 1) A free collage will end up being more like extended high school. 2) At some point new institutes of for pay higher education will pop up. They just won't be called colleges. People who can afford them will clearly have a advantage and top companies will start to seek out people who attended these organi…

If you look at the UK, which has in recent years gone from free to firstly low tuition fees and more recently exorbitant tuition fees, the reverse seems to be true. In making university a £9k a year proposition universities seem to have significantly increased student expectations along the lines of "I paid for this, I expect top marks", along with vast increases in appeals etc. It does not seem to have increased edu…

Yeah, I don't think high fees are the answer either. Costly and free are both extreme and probably won't do what we want them to do.

We need something just right, something that both the schools, and students still have some skin in the game so they are obligated / motivated to perform their best.

I think a free market mostly can cover do this, and it seemed to work out fine for many many years in the US until we started giving crazy loans out to everybody.

And don't get me started, on the bs that we need free school because low income kids won't be able to go. Harvard has a fund for low income students that goes untapped every year, they even make a effort to get low income kids (from my understanding mostly underprivileged minorities) to take advantage of the funding available, but yet, hardly anybody does.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#208
post #32

I'll probably be downvoted on a forum like this, but I worry about the most successful universities using their funds to subsidize those who would be fine without it. I was actually made aware of this by a wealthy Stanford alumni which has a fairly broad program for undergraduate tuition assistance. Graduates of mid/low tier universities seem more and more likely to have to compete with better credentialed people wit…

IDK. The same thought process led me to not being able to complete college due to financial reasons. Despite being emancipated, FAFSA still considers you a dependent until you're 24. I was told that only with documentation of leaving an abusive household would a dependency exception grant be applied. So according to FAFSA I was supposed to use all this money that I didn't have to pay for college. By 24 I had dropped…

College is expensive because so much money is available in the forms of subsidies and loans. If the federal government stopped guaranteeing loans, and cut back on other subsidies, the cost of college would be much much lower.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#209
post #32

I'll probably be downvoted on a forum like this, but I worry about the most successful universities using their funds to subsidize those who would be fine without it. I was actually made aware of this by a wealthy Stanford alumni which has a fairly broad program for undergraduate tuition assistance. Graduates of mid/low tier universities seem more and more likely to have to compete with better credentialed people wit…

Just out of curiosity, would you(r family) have been able to afford medical school anyway?

This isn't just for the poor, it's also for the well-educated, solidly middle-class people who still can't afford med school, or have to go deep in debt, thus leading to them being forced to prioritize high-earning careers over those they might otherwise be inclined towards, medical careers that might have a more positive social impact.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#210
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know if the single payer models we use in the US keep Dr. salaries on par? I've only heard of savings from negotiated drug prices, and insurance overhead; but, if Dr. salaries are also decreased, OP's got an interesting point.

I don't think doctor salaries are substantially lower in Canada.

I couldn't find the original study that these articles are based off of..

"Canadian doctors still make dramatically less than U.S. counterparts: study" https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-doctors-still-...

US doctors earn much more than peers, study says https://bangordailynews.com/2011/09/09/health/us-doctors-ear...

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