NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students • Hacker News Board

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#71

Post by karmajunkie » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 5:20 PM UTC

acomar wrote: post #20

retbull wrote: post #2

I hope this helps to decrease the costs of medical care in the US to some extent as it removes one pressure for doctors to earn extra money charging for things that might not need to be needed. edit: Just so I am clear I know that there are lots of other influences on healthcare costs and doctor debt isn't the only pressure they face. Doctors do have some influence on cost (if not large) and if pressure on them is re…

Doctor's pay is not the driving factor behind increasing medical bills... administrative expenses at providers in insurance, opaque and arcane cost structures negotiated as deals between providers and insurance companies, and record profits at both insurance companies and providers point to a system that's cannibalizing itself. This will do nothing to costs even if implemented universally as it does nothing to addres…

There's no single bogeyman behind rising medical costs but it's ridiculous to say that provider compensation has nothing to do with it. The single biggest driver, IMHO, is fee for service and medical supplies, but every aspect of the medical industry plays some role.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#72

Post by karmajunkie » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 5:22 PM UTC

robotresearcher wrote: post #42

pastor_elm wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would doctors willingly give up making extra hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Why would a university willingly give up millions of dollars in tuition? Some people and institutions optimize for other things once they have enough money. Alas, this couldn’t have a large effect on health costs anyway, since costs are dominated by things other than doctor pay.

They're not giving it up—it's being paid by the interest on a rather large endowment.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#73

Post by 0xcafecafe » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

aabajian wrote: post #4

This is amazing. I graduated from medical school two years ago with $300,000 in debt. I'm a software developer on the side and would love to stop residency to try a healthcare startup and/or pursue a research, but the risk is too great - I need the attending salary to pay off the debt.

Geniune question: why does a degree cost that much? Is it the teaching staff salaries? Is it extremely state of the art equipment? Is it possible to disrupt that?

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#74

Post by gerpsh » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

> School officials worry that rising tuition and soaring loan balances are pushing new doctors into high-paying fields and contributing to a shortage of researchers and primary care physicians.

I think this is only partially true, because it misunderstands the motivations of many would-be doctors. Sure, the cost of medical education factors into specialty decisions, but as long as derm and ortho are regarded as more _prestigious_ than family med and general peds, you're going to see similar residency application numbers. There's still a social hierarchy within the medical profession, which the price of tuition doesn't immediately change.

Still, this is great for people set on primary care as a career. Interestingly enough, my general observation has been that students who need the money the _least_ (i.e. people whose families are paying for their educations) are the ones who are gunning for the highest paid (and typically most prestigious) specialties.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#75

Post by pmiller2 » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 5:24 PM UTC

kaitari wrote: post #50

This is great! Now lets please do the same for nurses and social workers who pay exorbitant tuition rates, too, yet get paid peanuts to be on the frontline of health care.

Especially social workers. I have literally no idea why anyone would go to grad school for an MSW and take on the kind of debt required to do so, then enter a profession with the combination of low salaries and horrible work environment that social work has. The same goes to a slightly lesser extent for secondary and elementary school teachers.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#76

Post by pandler » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 5:24 PM UTC

aabajian wrote: post #4

This is amazing. I graduated from medical school two years ago with $300,000 in debt. I'm a software developer on the side and would love to stop residency to try a healthcare startup and/or pursue a research, but the risk is too great - I need the attending salary to pay off the debt.

I’ve started thinking of the obligation to stick in industry to pay off my loans as an analog to having an organization like the US military pay for my degree. I have a few friends in the military studying at university for free. Their payment for those degrees essentially consists of X number years of obligatory post-degree military service, in addition to whatever military obligations during their study. [1]

It’s an imperfect analog I think, but it’s helped me contextualize my situation and remove some feelings of bitterness towards the debt I still owe.

[1] I’m not military so I don’t know 100% how that works - open to corrections

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#77

Post by karmajunkie » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 5:25 PM UTC

gk1 wrote: post #7

retbull wrote: post #2

I hope this helps to decrease the costs of medical care in the US to some extent as it removes one pressure for doctors to earn extra money charging for things that might not need to be needed. edit: Just so I am clear I know that there are lots of other influences on healthcare costs and doctor debt isn't the only pressure they face. Doctors do have some influence on cost (if not large) and if pressure on them is re…

From my (limited) understanding, the high cost of malpractice insurance that doctors must pay is what drives up the cost of healthcare, more so than their student debt.

This has been conclusive disproven by comparing what happened in different states that enacted tort reform for medical malpractice. The cost of insurance dropped a bit, but there has been no effect the cost of healthcare provisioning.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#78

Post by alrehn » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 5:26 PM UTC

aabajian wrote: post #4

This is amazing. I graduated from medical school two years ago with $300,000 in debt. I'm a software developer on the side and would love to stop residency to try a healthcare startup and/or pursue a research, but the risk is too great - I need the attending salary to pay off the debt.

Good on you for having that attitude, and not the "I had to do this bad thing, so they should too" line of thinking that is all too common.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#79

Post by blang » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 5:27 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #61

cwp wrote: post #59

Bravo! I just wish there was a middle ground here. The problem is that tuition is too high, not that it exists at all. Lowering tuition would solve the problem just as effectively, and could be done for more students.

Lowering med school, law school, and undergrad tuition by 8% across the board doesn't quite get the publicity that eliminating med school tuition does, though.

It's also easier, NYU med school has ~530 students, NYU undergrad has ~26,000 students

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#80

Post by blang » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

dugluak wrote: post #39

dugluak wrote: post #21

But who is going to pay off that $450 million ?

Not sure about the down votes, I didn't mean to ask a rhetorical question. But someone has to pay if not students. Or is that not how it works in this case? Disclaimer: I couldn't read the whole article because I don't have a login to the website.

The $450 Million was the amount of money they already raised through donations, it's nothing they have to pay back.