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NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

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Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#41

Post by scarface74 »

School-Cotton wrote: post #3
retbull wrote: post #2

I hope this helps to decrease the costs of medical care in the US to some extent as it removes one pressure for doctors to earn extra money charging for things that might not need to be needed. edit: Just so I am clear I know that there are lots of other influences on healthcare costs and doctor debt isn't the only pressure they face. Doctors do have some influence on cost (if not large) and if pressure on them is re…

I hope so too, but I can't see why it would. The market forces would be the same. I have no student debt but I still would take a higher-paying job, all else being equal. Not sure why it would be different for doctors. I'm not an economics expert so please let me know if this is a well-studied question and I'm just talking out of my ass.

Not on that scale. But I know plenty of teachers who chose not to be administrators because they enjoyed what they do. I also know many first level software development managers who “self demoted” to become software developers and took a pay cut.

Other developers I know took a pay cut and contracted half the year. You can make those choices if you don’t have outrageous expenses- including student loans.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#42

Post by robotresearcher »

pastor_elm wrote: post #25
retbull wrote: post #2

I hope this helps to decrease the costs of medical care in the US to some extent as it removes one pressure for doctors to earn extra money charging for things that might not need to be needed. edit: Just so I am clear I know that there are lots of other influences on healthcare costs and doctor debt isn't the only pressure they face. Doctors do have some influence on cost (if not large) and if pressure on them is re…

why would doctors willingly give up making extra hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Why would a university willingly give up millions of dollars in tuition?

Some people and institutions optimize for other things once they have enough money.

Alas, this couldn’t have a large effect on health costs anyway, since costs are dominated by things other than doctor pay.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#43

Post by Bjartr »

trhway wrote: post #15
gk1 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my (limited) understanding, the high cost of malpractice insurance that doctors must pay is what drives up the cost of healthcare, more so than their student debt.

>high cost of malpractice insurance results from high cost of malpractice. So instead of treating the symptom - insurance, one has to treat the original condition - malpractice. To continue the analogy - the trial lawyers in case of malpractice is just like the immune system. When infection (malpractice) happens you see the heavy effects of immune system acting like high fever, yet it would be a grave mistake to supp…

Malpractice suits are brought over 3x as often in the US as in Canada, and malpractice insurance can cost more than an order of magnitude more.

However, in the US there is a much greater incentive to sue. About 21% of malpractice suits that pay out, pay out over $1,000,000. Something that elsewhere would merely net you enough to handle the medical fallout, in the US nets you a lottery jackpot. Because the money on the line is so high it incentives both layers and plaintiffs to aggressively maximize the payout. Like so many other aspects of the US health system, other countries do it better.

* All claims were the results of a few minutes of research on Google, I would be interested in learning of evidence that contradicts my claims.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#44

Post by mbostleman »

retbull wrote: post #2

I hope this helps to decrease the costs of medical care in the US to some extent as it removes one pressure for doctors to earn extra money charging for things that might not need to be needed. edit: Just so I am clear I know that there are lots of other influences on healthcare costs and doctor debt isn't the only pressure they face. Doctors do have some influence on cost (if not large) and if pressure on them is re…

If the subsidies are private it would be a great way to solve the "free education" for everyone promise that is gaining traction (I'm assuming education will also be pitched as a right if it hasn't already).

But as long as health is not a free market, then the price isn't going to necessarily go up or down in response to costs. The price will continue to be function of political power and monopolistic practices as it is now.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#45

Post by CindyCarlson »

blang wrote: post #22
glitchc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I may ask, how exactly do you have the time to be both a resident and a software developer? There aren't enough hours in the day. Do you even sleep?

There is time for life outside of residency. My wife started residency with a 5 month old and had another child half way through, this delayed her graduation a total of 4 weeks.

While that's very encouraging to hear, that depends wildly on what program and specialty you are in. West coast vs East Coast plays a role too.

Peds/OBGYN/IM/Derm and most female dominated specialties you see this.

Neurosurgery, Ortho, Gen surg, etc not so much.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#46

Post by ksdale »

mbostleman wrote: post #40
mabbo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it? Hospitals in America aren't actually a free market. You cannot choose not to buy, and in emergency situations you can't actually compare prices between sellers. Hospitals charge whatever they can get away with and insurance companies get a discount because they have some leverage- but you and I don't. All this would really do is help lower the medical providers costs. Likely it will give them additional…

Generally speaking, when exactly can you compare prices in a non-emergency situation? I have gotten to the point that every time I see my doctor, I ask for the costs because I enjoy the awkward and ultimately unanswerable question and I like bringing the problem to the surface rather than pretending it doesn't exist.

It's truly ridiculous how hard it is for hospitals to answer this question sometimes. We've occasionally received the answer that they won't know the price until after the appointment because they won't know which code to charge until they've provided service. Then you ask what the cost of the likely codes are and they still have no idea.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#47

Post by [deleted] »

mbostleman wrote: post #40
mabbo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it? Hospitals in America aren't actually a free market. You cannot choose not to buy, and in emergency situations you can't actually compare prices between sellers. Hospitals charge whatever they can get away with and insurance companies get a discount because they have some leverage- but you and I don't. All this would really do is help lower the medical providers costs. Likely it will give them additional…

Generally speaking, when exactly can you compare prices in a non-emergency situation? I have gotten to the point that every time I see my doctor, I ask for the costs because I enjoy the awkward and ultimately unanswerable question and I like bringing the problem to the surface rather than pretending it doesn't exist.

[deleted]

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#48

Post by mbostleman »

ksdale wrote: post #46
mbostleman wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking, when exactly can you compare prices in a non-emergency situation? I have gotten to the point that every time I see my doctor, I ask for the costs because I enjoy the awkward and ultimately unanswerable question and I like bringing the problem to the surface rather than pretending it doesn't exist.

It's truly ridiculous how hard it is for hospitals to answer this question sometimes. We've occasionally received the answer that they won't know the price until after the appointment because they won't know which code to charge until they've provided service. Then you ask what the cost of the likely codes are and they still have no idea.

Right. There's too many levels of abstraction. It's like trying to find the implementing code and all you keep finding is interfaces.

Re: NYU Makes Tuition Free for All Medical Students

#49

Post by scarface74 »

trhway wrote: post #15
gk1 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my (limited) understanding, the high cost of malpractice insurance that doctors must pay is what drives up the cost of healthcare, more so than their student debt.

>high cost of malpractice insurance results from high cost of malpractice. So instead of treating the symptom - insurance, one has to treat the original condition - malpractice. To continue the analogy - the trial lawyers in case of malpractice is just like the immune system. When infection (malpractice) happens you see the heavy effects of immune system acting like high fever, yet it would be a grave mistake to supp…

Sometimes things happen. There are commercials on TV all of the time where lawyers are soliciting people to sue doctors for birth defects like cerebral palsy.

I’m glad that my parents spent my childhood focused on therapy, motivation, etc to help me deal with cerebral palsy than placing the blame on the doctor.

Yeah my case is relatively minor in the grand scheme of things.

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