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MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

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Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#91

Post by cmelbye »

Crazometer wrote: post #82
hristov wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope it would not have worked. You see movie theater owners have to pay the movie owner a per viewer fee. So it is not merely about filling up empty seats. The entire "filling up empty seats" story relies on the misconception that if you have empty seats there is a zero marginal cost to extra viewers, but that is not the case, movie owners charge per ticket sold. The deal movie pass offered theaters was "if you make…

The marginal cost is likely significantly lower than the ticketed price. I'm sure there is a win-win there somewhere. In Australia tickets are about $20 ea retail. Many of the cinemas have deals regularly offering tickets for around $15. If you are with certain telcos you can get tickets all year round for $13.

> I'm sure there is a win-win there somewhere.

$15 popcorn.

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#92

Post by Mindwipe »

phobosdeimos wrote: post #88
paxys wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix has been losing third-party content very rapidly for a while now, but users seem to be sticking regardless. Scrolling through their front page right now I'd say a good 80-90% of shows I see are Netflix-produced, and it isn't going to be hard for anyone to find something that is good enough to watch.

Globally Netflix doesn't have much competition. HBO, Amazon, Hulu etc are America focused while Netflix has done a lot to cater to local markets.

Netflix has stacks of local market competition in every local market. They're just not companies Americans know of.

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#93

Post by Mindwipe »

indecisive_user wrote: post #54
Fomite wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It's easy to "shake up" and "disrupt" an industry by spending VC money like it's going out of style. "People like things given away at below market rates" isn't even a proof of concept.

Alamo Drafthouse is testing its own subscription service and AMC already rolled theirs out. Now maybe it's just coincidental timing but moviepass certainly proved there's a huge interest in that model of movie tickets.

Chain specific subscription services (at more sustainable costs than Moviepass) have been common outside the US for a number of years. Indeed, that's where Moviepass got the idea from. I don't think Moviepass proved much there.

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#94

Post by scarface74 »

drawkbox wrote: post #75
drawkbox wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, those are nice features, but I was mainly talking about when you check the app or buy the tickets ahead and it is sold out or doesn't have ideal reserved seating left, from there if you want to see it now you have to pay full price without the movie benefit at another chain. This can happen especially on opening nights. We always book our tickets online ahead of time and only go to reserved seating theaters wit…

Edit: https://www.sinemia.com/ looks like it supports all theaters and will probably pick up the MoviePass customers who want independent from the theater chain subscription movies.

And they have the same unsustainable business model.

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#95

Post by Splyce »

phobosdeimos wrote: post #87
jasonkester wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any chance the theaters were being rational and it was in fact you who were mistaken? The idea of an app that makes people watch more movies does seem pretty far fetched the way you describe it. A more logical conclusion would be that you either didn't sell your thing to them very well (as you haven't sold it to us) or that they, being in the movie business, saw something about it that you, being in the app business,…

Its not far fetched because such apps actually exist and do everything he/she describes. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.sharewire....

I dont believe he was making the point the app wouldnt function or didnt exist but more that the claims being made about said app would hold true. From what i gathered is this guys app would not just increase movie goers attendance but increase it by $1 billion worth a year. Thats some really bold claims and I doubt any serious investor would pass up if there was any sort of data to back it up.

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#96

Post by chongli »

brianstorms wrote: post #62
paxys wrote: post #30

MoviePass (incorrectly) assumed it would be able to strike sweetheart deals with all theater chains, thus drastically reducing overall costs. It even sounds good in theory - why wouldn't the theater want to get paid for seats that would have otherwise gone empty and have more people inside buying concessions? It could even have worked - maybe five or ten years ago. Now the theaters themselves quickly realized the val…

Problem is, it's nigh impossible for a tech company to "strike deals with all the theater chains," be they sweetheart or not so sweet. The movie theater biz is one of the most inept around, stuck in the 1950's in terms of its business model. I did a tech startup that tried to bring social/mobile/local tech to the movie theater experience, and the theaters balked. They fear technology. It took a decade of fearmongerin…

The way I see it is that movie theatre owners don't want film enthusiasts. People who see a lot of movies tend not to buy concessions, all they do is take up seats which the theatre is basically giving away for free to the studios.

What theatre owners really want are the blockbuster movies that draw the general public. They love when a family of 5 comes in to watch the Incredibles 2 and spends a small fortune on food to keep the kids happy. This is why movie theatres have sold mostly junk food all these years.

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#97

Post by swaggyBoatswain »

hristov wrote: post #77
paxys wrote: post #30

MoviePass (incorrectly) assumed it would be able to strike sweetheart deals with all theater chains, thus drastically reducing overall costs. It even sounds good in theory - why wouldn't the theater want to get paid for seats that would have otherwise gone empty and have more people inside buying concessions? It could even have worked - maybe five or ten years ago. Now the theaters themselves quickly realized the val…

Nope it would not have worked. You see movie theater owners have to pay the movie owner a per viewer fee. So it is not merely about filling up empty seats. The entire "filling up empty seats" story relies on the misconception that if you have empty seats there is a zero marginal cost to extra viewers, but that is not the case, movie owners charge per ticket sold. The deal movie pass offered theaters was "if you make…

pretty much this, penetrate the market and figure it out later. Except that last part wasn't there.

Someone didn't do risk analysis over there

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#98

Post by deboflo »

paxys wrote: post #30

MoviePass (incorrectly) assumed it would be able to strike sweetheart deals with all theater chains, thus drastically reducing overall costs. It even sounds good in theory - why wouldn't the theater want to get paid for seats that would have otherwise gone empty and have more people inside buying concessions? It could even have worked - maybe five or ten years ago. Now the theaters themselves quickly realized the val…

Kindof like uber potentially being left out of autonomy by OEM’s who will likely offer their own ride sharing services.

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#99

Post by jonwachob91 »

hristov wrote: post #77
paxys wrote: post #30

MoviePass (incorrectly) assumed it would be able to strike sweetheart deals with all theater chains, thus drastically reducing overall costs. It even sounds good in theory - why wouldn't the theater want to get paid for seats that would have otherwise gone empty and have more people inside buying concessions? It could even have worked - maybe five or ten years ago. Now the theaters themselves quickly realized the val…

Nope it would not have worked. You see movie theater owners have to pay the movie owner a per viewer fee. So it is not merely about filling up empty seats. The entire "filling up empty seats" story relies on the misconception that if you have empty seats there is a zero marginal cost to extra viewers, but that is not the case, movie owners charge per ticket sold. The deal movie pass offered theaters was "if you make…

>The deal movie pass offered theaters was "if you make a deal with us, we can help you raise revenues at a marginal loss." No sane business person wants that. The point of business is to make money not lose it.

Movie theaters don't make their margins on tickets sales, they make them on concession sales. The model of "lose a small amount on tickets sales, and make it up and then some on concession sales" is fundamentally sound. The ticket loses would get written off as a Cost of User Acquisition for the high profit concession items.

The theater market is just so consolidated that theaters learned they can cut out the middle man, movie pass, and still get the increased movie attendance. Hence, why so many chains started offering their own in-house subscription plan. It's really no different then almost every television content creator starting to cut Netflix/Hulu out by offering their own subscription service.

Re: MoviePass Owner Sued by Shareholders as Business Model Falters

#100

Post by laken »

vamshi4001 wrote: post #71

They sent a confirmation mail saying that "I am in" as soon as I cancelled their subscription! Pretty lame they can't identify difference between an entry event and an exit event

Careful! If you got that email, you didn't fully cancel, and resubscribed. The app has a prompt on open telling you about the plan changes, even if you canceled. If you check "I agree," it un-cancels your subscription.
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