Typically chinese way of doing things, making the opponent thinking that he's invincible then striking hard and fast at the right time. That in every domain.
What are some other examples of this typical phenomenon?
Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents
111–120 of 206 posts
Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree that I see a lot of Chinese apologism in the form of "this is the Chinese way" here. I wouldn't say that the comments are necessarily pro-China though, but rather just explaining that it is a different culture and things are done in a different way. I do think it's a bullshit cop out though. I think that it's ignorant at best and racist at worst when people make comments here along the lines of "Chinese peopl…
Would an immigrant Be an immigrant if they held love for the CCP and the Chinese Government?
Because people are complicated and do things for complicated reasons.
Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents
#113>But the CIA’s interim system contained a technical error: It connected back architecturally to the CIA’s main covert communications platform. When the compromise was suspected, the FBI and NSA both ran “penetration tests” to determine the security of the interim system. They found that cyber experts with access to the interim system could also access the broader covert communications system the agency was using to i…
Here I was always assuming they employed the types of people who read HN to build systems like this. I'd expect e2e crypto, perfect forward secrecy, perhaps something akin to tor, and maybe even the ability to use steganography to disguise the fact any comms were really happening at all.
Oh look at this cute kitten picture, let me save it and then get the encrypted code out of it. That's great, let me upload this equally cute puppy riding a skateboard picture to the forum that contains my reply.
Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents
#114It took 8 years for the CIA to figure out what happened?? This certainly explains why China and Russia continue to conduct cyber operations basically at the same level of intensity they have been for years - US intelligence, despite its enormous, unaccountable budget is unable to stop them or even know where they are compromised. If there is an actual hot conflict between the US and either of these nations, I shudder…
They had a similar failure in Iran: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/22/world/la-fg-iran-esp... The problem is that the real conflict the US faces is whether it should let its foreign policy be run by facts, or whether the intelligence agencies are simply there to manufacture consent for whatever the ruling party has decided to invade next. In the latter case the intelligence on the ground doesn't actually matter…
Yeah the recent revelation of this episode certainly made it more difficult to stomach the various retired intelligence blowhards making the rounds of the news programs this morning to firmly declare risible canards like "Intelligence is about the Truth!" Somehow getting one's clearance lifted seems less draconian than overseeing the deaths of multitudes...
Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents
#115>But the CIA’s interim system contained a technical error: It connected back architecturally to the CIA’s main covert communications platform. When the compromise was suspected, the FBI and NSA both ran “penetration tests” to determine the security of the interim system. They found that cyber experts with access to the interim system could also access the broader covert communications system the agency was using to i…
Between the lines: it was Tor.
Deploys on computers. Web-based. Detectable through decryption or pattern analysis. Firewalls. It was a pair of Tor hidden services. The mistake was probably that they ran both on the same machine with only a firewall separating them, rather than physically different servers.
Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder if this is due to the ever increasing scale of the US intelligence services. From my working life perspective smaller teams of talented people are often more impactful than significantly larger teams. E.g. Large teams create bureaucracy. And 'weak links' become harder to spot and typically allowed to remain. I know nothing about this area so take my comment as curiosity only, but I wonder what USA gets/achie…
From my brief view into a federal agency: Employee breakdown is as follows: 1/6 extremely capable and dedicated high performers 1/6 extremely capable and dedicated but go home at 5pm 1/3 average (not going to screw things up massively, but also never going to make a large contribution) 1/3 shocking (as in where do you even find people this useless and disagreeable - if you’re lucky their managers put them in an offic…
These numbers look pretty good compared to my experience with large corporate organizations.
Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
From my brief view into a federal agency: Employee breakdown is as follows: 1/6 extremely capable and dedicated high performers 1/6 extremely capable and dedicated but go home at 5pm 1/3 average (not going to screw things up massively, but also never going to make a large contribution) 1/3 shocking (as in where do you even find people this useless and disagreeable - if you’re lucky their managers put them in an offic…
So like a normal office, then? :)
Normal offices have layoffs now and then, which in many cases target the latter third.
Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
The last execution of an American for treason was in 1862. Martin James Monti, United States Army Air Forces pilot, convicted of treason for defecting to the Waffen SS in 1944. He was paroled in 1960. Robert Henry Best, convicted of treason on April 16, 1948 and served a life sentence. (Which turned out to be 4 years. Died in 1952 in prison of a cerebral hemorrhage.) Iva Toguri D'Aquino, who is frequently identified…
What about the Rosenbergs?
Quick Google suggests they were convicted for espionage (under the Espionage Act), not treason. Though it's really unclear to me why espionage against your own country and for another would not qualify as treason.
edit: Sibling commenter had a view on it: "Technically, this wouldn't be treason according to the US definition, because treason is only possible in the context of a declared enemy of the USA (i.e., war)."
Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed. > U.S. intelligence officers were also able to identify digital links between the covert communications system and the U.S. government itself, according to one former official—links the Chinese agencies almost certainly found as well. These digital links would have made it relatively easy for China to deduce that the covert communications system was being used by the CIA. In fact, some of these links pointed…
Why are they using an off the shelf secure communication system from the Middle East? Surely something this important is a national secret and should be developed in house with your best minds. If it's off the shelf and others are using, then they can just buy the equipment and look for flaws (like this massive one).
Off the shelf may also mean you dont have to smuggle it. It is much easier to hide if there is no special equipment in someone's closet. It sounds like they were using Tor.
Re: Botched CIA Communications System Helped Blow Cover of Chinese Agents
#120Maybe they should have used BBM/iMessage/WhatsApp - all the civilian gear governments are screaming they need backdoors into because they’re too tough to crack... Yes I say this partly in jest and also partly as a ‘why didn’t they’. BBM Enterprise over a VPN service popular with movie streamers would have actually helped them blend in... digitally speaking.
An intelligence operation has different requirements. While those listed applications might hide the contents of the messages, you can still see that messages were sent/received, and that might be enough to warrant you for summary execution in China.
During WW2/WW1 the British knew when air raids were coming from Germany by recognizing radio traffic patterns, and activity. The radio traffic was encrypted, and they could not understand whatever was sent, but the traffic itself created patterns that alerted them.