Software development requires servant leaders • Hacker News Board

Re: Software development requires servant leaders

#201

Post by kthejoker2 » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 10:44 AM UTC

yarper wrote: post #195

commandlinefan wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Structural engineering, or any other kind of real engineering (which includes every time of engineering except software "engineering") can also be reduced down to pure math. It's complicated math, and not everybody can comprehend it, but what engineers do boils down to lots and lots of equations. The only place this really applied in software is in efficiency calculations: is approach _x_ faster than approach _y_? In…

Software engineering can be reduced to math too, for example functional programming is a lambda calculus derivative. I think it's basically just that we're so close to programming that it's hard to see it for what it is, just a bunch of rules and equations.

That's just one facet of software engineering. Large swaths of it cannot be reduced to math ie everything the user actually sees, hears, perceives, etc. Those are subject to psychology, aesthetics, ergonomics ... Although we're trying to quantify those, too, so maybe one day ...

Re: Software development requires servant leaders

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Post by shanghaiaway » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 1:26 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #100

LargeWu wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, PM's or whoever usually want estimates on the spot. They want estimates fast, but then they treat them as though they were well researched. If you tell them "there's a 75% probability we can get it done in 2 months" they hear "we can get it done in 2 months". There's also a tendency to leave out important information. I recently worked on a project where 1) more than half of the features were not in…

That serial approach (get good requirements; design and code; test) always works that way. An iterative approach can work better. Why isn't the architect in standup at least during the beginning of the project? All this could have been shortcut.

Because developers want to be left alone and also because they think meetings are unnecessary

Re: Software development requires servant leaders

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Post by douglaswlance » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 1:42 PM UTC

alex_anglin wrote: post #69

douglaswlance wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software is the only discipline that exclusively creates practical results via ideas. In excavation, you can see the dirt and rocks, and say "This terrain is different than we expected." and someone else can see the same terrain and say, "You are correct. Our assumptions were wrong." In software, you can't show anyone that the situation is different than your assumptions, because the assumptions themselves are the ma…

>>Software is the only discipline that exclusively creates practical results via ideas. You're going a bit far there. How about writing, design, art, etc...? There are plenty of creative industries out there.

Writing, design, art, and other creative disciplines generate products. They do not create results, by which I mean, software itself generates results. You can write a book, but the book doesn't do anything. A person can read it, but the book doesn't generate results.

Re: Software development requires servant leaders

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Post by devdas » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 2:11 PM UTC

heartbreak wrote: post #133

guelo wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of another discipline like software engineering. Most other disciplines where you build things you reach a point where you deliver the product and then you're done with it, there might be some maintenance but the period of major changes is done. In software you might have a building full of engineers working on the same product for years after it was initially delivered, adding major features, making de…

Sure it does. It exists in construction. You build a building to spec, and then that building is constantly outfitted for new tenants, remodeled, and renovated for decades if not centuries.

Software is the creation of the spec.

Re: Software development requires servant leaders

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Post by devdas » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 2:14 PM UTC

ahayter wrote: post #149

heartbreak wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it does. It exists in construction. You build a building to spec, and then that building is constantly outfitted for new tenants, remodeled, and renovated for decades if not centuries.

This analogy is one of my personal favorites for software development. The machine that is going to be running the software could be considered our building. The hardware of the machine is designed to exacting specifications by people that typically hold university engineering degrees and is much more reliable than software typically is, it has to be or nobody would use it. Failure of the building is catastrophic to…

Except that hardware fails, but software should stay reliably running in the face of that system.

Think of software more as a neighbourhood, or even an entire city. Rebuilding any given building should not impact the running of the city itself.

Re: Software development requires servant leaders

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Post by normalocity » Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 7:27 PM UTC

All work actually requires servant leadership to be maximally effective. This article does a great job of explaining it in the software domain. My wife works as a school principal and though the specific jargon would be different, the lessons are the same, because other than specific idiosyncracies that engineers have, we're all motivated and burned out by the same fundamental things. That's the good news - people are people.

The bad news is that if you get burned out by software, changing careers isn't going to fix anything. As I get older I care less about the specific problems to be solved by the team, and I care a hell of a lot more about the group of people I solve them with

Thanks for posting this.

Re: Software development requires servant leaders

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Post by thewileyone » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 10:10 AM UTC

This can be applied across any job field. A good manager gets obstacles out of his teams' way so that they can do the best job that they can.

Re: Software development requires servant leaders

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Post by thewileyone » Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 10:27 AM UTC

phakding wrote: post #32

Why does software industry keep coming up with this sort of thing all the time? I worked as structural engineer before becoming software engineer and we never had to invent different kind of leadership and procedures or change office floor plans or hire outsider non-engineers as our (scrum) masters, or talk about the client as stake holders etc. Sorry about hurting your agile feelings!

Hey, I've been in software forever. All this scrum, agile, new fangled terms is just work. Call it what you want, but it's all just work. Do work and you'll get done, no matter the process. Do great work and you'll never have to look at it again.

Re: Software development requires servant leaders

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Post by undershirt » Sat, Aug 18, 2018, 4:17 PM UTC

agentultra wrote: post #141

You have to be careful being a servant leader. It's often a thankless job. And most of the time other people will be taking credit for your work. It's not noble to suffer like that -- it can be damaging to your health. It's an effective position however and comes with it's own rewards. I personally relish seeing my team grow and the people I help mentor flourish. I recommend getting a good therapist and taking small,…

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they are the doormats of life."

I heard this on the radio once. You have to be prepared to be walked on when you're the one keeping the peace.