Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 217 posts

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#91

Post by MrFantastic »

geomark wrote: post #19
spinach wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the article? "Analysts pointed to two major reasons for the increase: A growing number of Americans are using opioids, and drugs are becoming more deadly. It is the second factor that most likely explains the bulk of the increased number of overdoses last year." And they are becoming more deadly because the street drugs are being laced with fentanyl.

"...drugs are becoming more deadly." I guess they are referring to street drugs(?) which are becoming more deadly for the reason you pointed out. At the same time the news is constantly full of stories about a rise in opioid overdoses.

Street heroin is an Opioid.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#92

Post by emiliobumachar »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #18

As a comparison, the road toll in the USA is 33,000 per year. Firearms kill about the same number (including 20,000 suicides). 3,000 people were killed in the 9/11 attacks. 72,000 overdose deaths is just a staggeringly large number.

Thanks, you've put the number in perspective. More deaths than cars and guns combined. Staggering indeed.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#93

Post by js2 »

stef25 wrote: post #55
announcerman wrote: post #7

The amount of responsibility laundering that's happening is staggering. Is it the fault of the doctors for prescribing strong painkillers or the responsibility of lobbyists for keeping the status quo as it is. Or is it the responsibility of patients to not seek strong opiates for the smallest aches? On whom falls the blame for this?

The doctors. Anyone who spends the better part of a decade studying medicine can't be ignorant about opioids and addiction, regardless of what the slimy Purdue representative tells them. The only excuse they have for the blatant over prescribing of opioids (2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing) is that if they don't do it, the patient will just go to another doctor. But how can you just…

> The doctors.

Certainly training them to prescribe less is a place to start: Doctors trained at lower-ranked American medical schools prescribe more opioids

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/08/23/doctors-...

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#94

Post by ams6110 »

stef25 wrote: post #55
announcerman wrote: post #7

The amount of responsibility laundering that's happening is staggering. Is it the fault of the doctors for prescribing strong painkillers or the responsibility of lobbyists for keeping the status quo as it is. Or is it the responsibility of patients to not seek strong opiates for the smallest aches? On whom falls the blame for this?

The doctors. Anyone who spends the better part of a decade studying medicine can't be ignorant about opioids and addiction, regardless of what the slimy Purdue representative tells them. The only excuse they have for the blatant over prescribing of opioids (2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing) is that if they don't do it, the patient will just go to another doctor. But how can you just…

> 2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing

Surely this is not the norm? My son had his wisdom teeth out a few years ago, they gave him about a day's worth of hydrocodone and told him to take Tylenol after that. And all the doctors my family has seen for the past couple of decades have been pretty conservative about prescribing anything narcotic for pain.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#95

Post by armitron »

yters wrote: post #73
3x wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overdoses would decrease. Nearly all recreational drugs should be legalized with regulation to promote safe drug use. These substances should be sold in single individually-packaged doses, with clear and explicit labeling. Taxation can be used to selectively promote the use of safer alternatives to the hardest drugs, for example making marijuana, opium, and mushrooms cheap compared to drugs with a high risk of overdo…

The prior question is: what is causing overdoses? My understanding is the opioids are already regulated, controlled, and dosed appropriately, since most are acquired through medical prescription. Why so many overdoses, then? My hypothesis is the drugs are addictive, and it takes more to get the same high each time, which eventually leads to accidental overdose. Additionally, drug use can lead to feeling trapped and h…

Your hypothesis is entirely wrong. Overdoses happen because desperate people get their drugs from the black market where purity fluctuates. Read the article again. Fentanyl getting mixed into heroin, cocaine and methamphetamine. This is what kills people, not some mystical property of "opioids" that makes people consume more and more.

The US has a well-documented, multi-year history of legalized Opium (and later) heroin usage. Bored housewives would order heroin kits from Sears mail-order catalogues. There were no mass deaths due to overdoses. Political propaganda that was aimed against the Chinese immigrants of the time was used to vilify Opium and led to the passing of the very strict drug laws that continue on today.

The solution is simple: Legalize Opium and let people smoke it as they see fit. It's addictive, yes, but no more than alcohol or tobacco and much less destructive than street heroin or synthetics. Another point: Functioning heroin addicts that keep down a job are not exactly unheard of, today. Most of them have good enough salaries to afford premium heroin and they manage to blend in.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#96

Post by maxerickson »

claydavisss wrote: post #83
ssijak wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very hypocritical for some politician to tell me what I can and what I can`t put into my body. Recently in UK they enacted a law that criminalize any substance that changes how you feel, but with the following remark "The ban is so wide-ranging that a long list of substances such as alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, food and medical products will have to be given special exemptions." When you thought that you reached…

If you expect society to share the burden of funding your healthcare, you should expect to share oversight of your habits.

Okay, but it's actually cheaper to just not worry too much about what people are putting into their bodies and offer treatment/assistance to people that want help stopping using some drug.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#97

Post by emiliobumachar »

leetcrew wrote: post #90
yters wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The prior question is: what is causing overdoses? My understanding is the opioids are already regulated, controlled, and dosed appropriately, since most are acquired through medical prescription. Why so many overdoses, then? My hypothesis is the drugs are addictive, and it takes more to get the same high each time, which eventually leads to accidental overdose. Additionally, drug use can lead to feeling trapped and h…

> what is causing overdoses? overdoses can happen in many ways. sometimes it is genuine user error; ie, the person goes overboard and simply takes too much, or they don't properly account for the drop in tolerance after a period of abstinence. > most are acquired through medical prescription this might be true overall, but i'm not sure it's true of illegal/abusive use of the drugs. i can't easily find precise numbers…

"the purity of heroin varies wildly, anywhere from 10-60% strength on the street"

That's a sixfold increase. This is the key to understand overdoses. Keep in mind the last time you went a little overboard with alcohol, coffee, or even sugar. What would have happened if, unknown to you, you had actually taken six times as much?

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#98

Post by maxerickson »

bumholio wrote: post #3

I cannot but wonder if North Americans feel responsible in the least for what their voracious appetite for drugs is doing south of the US border. Mexico has become almost ungovernable, the drug trade being one of the main factors driving the decline.

I certainly think that removing the funds from the gangs should be among the primary motivations for trying other policies in the US.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#99

Post by ce4 »

mtw wrote: post #85
stef25 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The doctors. Anyone who spends the better part of a decade studying medicine can't be ignorant about opioids and addiction, regardless of what the slimy Purdue representative tells them. The only excuse they have for the blatant over prescribing of opioids (2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing) is that if they don't do it, the patient will just go to another doctor. But how can you just…

> found a physio who taught me how to strengthen my core, now I'm at the gym 2x a week and loving it Most other patients demand quick and effective pain relief. When most doctors operate within a system that promotes total customer satisfaction and when they know an opioid is going to make the pain go away right now, the opioid prescription is easier. Plus this will make extra dollars for the system. Changing this wo…

Here's a discussion from 7 months ago about exactly that. US patient came to another country and was faced with a mindset change and subsequently wrote an article about it in the nyt titled "After Surgery in Germany, I Wanted Vicodin, Not Herbal Tea" [0].

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16252372

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#100

Post by LeftTurnSignal »

yters wrote: post #73
3x wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overdoses would decrease. Nearly all recreational drugs should be legalized with regulation to promote safe drug use. These substances should be sold in single individually-packaged doses, with clear and explicit labeling. Taxation can be used to selectively promote the use of safer alternatives to the hardest drugs, for example making marijuana, opium, and mushrooms cheap compared to drugs with a high risk of overdo…

The prior question is: what is causing overdoses? My understanding is the opioids are already regulated, controlled, and dosed appropriately, since most are acquired through medical prescription. Why so many overdoses, then? My hypothesis is the drugs are addictive, and it takes more to get the same high each time, which eventually leads to accidental overdose. Additionally, drug use can lead to feeling trapped and h…

> My understanding is the opioids are already regulated, controlled, and dosed appropriately, since most are acquired through medical prescription. Why so many overdoses, then?

There's more people who use opiates than are prescribed here. Much Much more. OD's here happen because they can't get those drugs anymore, and go towards the black market. They don't bother testing anything from there, so they never know what theyre getting. That's the recipe for disaster here.

(may not be everywhere, but it's definitely at a lot of places)

Post reply on HN