Sure if these companies want to lose market share. And whats censorship? Who decides, the US? No thanks.
TLS 1.3 Is an Opportunity for Amazon, Google and Microsoft to End Censorship
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Re: TLS 1.3 Is an Opportunity for Amazon, Google and Microsoft to End Censorship
#22Seeing how search results are being censored in “free countries” due to things like the DMCA and The Right To Be Forgotten, maybe we shouldn’t look to private companies to fix this issue.
This is such a great point. Plenty of censorship here and there laws were written all they could be really abused with impunity (ex: DMCA takedown notices in the court cases facing Cox/Comcast).
Re: TLS 1.3 Is an Opportunity for Amazon, Google and Microsoft to End Censorship
#23The article is ironically censored for me.
Re: TLS 1.3 Is an Opportunity for Amazon, Google and Microsoft to End Censorship
#24Seeing how search results are being censored in “free countries” due to things like the DMCA and The Right To Be Forgotten, maybe we shouldn’t look to private companies to fix this issue.
That is a totally different issue. This is about ISPs and governments snooping on your browsing, not taking sites down or removing them from search results.
Re: TLS 1.3 Is an Opportunity for Amazon, Google and Microsoft to End Censorship
#25I have a few thoughts that come to mind.
One mistake we make frequently as tech people is trying to solve human relationship problems with a technology fixes. Censorship has existed for 10,000+ years; encrypted s night isn't going to magically fix it. There isn't an easy answer, just the hard path educate everyone.
Requiring encrypted sni will only mean the little influence thought leaders have in censored countries will be blotted our and replaced with state-run companies.
MITM proxies are a necessary evil, unfortunately, but the internet giants aren't doing a good job letting clients know when their TLS is being intercepted, so we're failing hard on education right now.
Also the makers of the commercial MITM proxies do a terrible job of staying current on TLS specs. This is likely in part due to customers being unwilling to install patches that cause a service interruption, so that should be taken into the design of said devices.
Re: TLS 1.3 Is an Opportunity for Amazon, Google and Microsoft to End Censorship
#26Why would anybody think that Amazon, Google, or Microsoft are against censorship? Recent events have demonstrated that they love them some censorship, when they do it. Witness the case of gab.ai - Google was happy to pull their app from the Play store. Microsoft didn't mind at all threatening to shut down their Azure account unless they censored a post. The Azure case is particularly amazing. I can't believe the tech press isn't picking up on a supposed cloud provider threatening to shut down someone's account unless they make their website behave in a particular way.
I will say I haven't heard of Amazon censoring anything yet, at least not at a level I would consider massively inappropriate for a cloud services provider. Not selling something on their normal store is one thing, but pulling the plug on an AWS account for website behavior would be something entirely different.
Re: TLS 1.3 Is an Opportunity for Amazon, Google and Microsoft to End Censorship
#27Seeing how search results are being censored in “free countries” due to things like the DMCA and The Right To Be Forgotten, maybe we shouldn’t look to private companies to fix this issue.
That is a totally different issue. This is about ISPs and governments snooping on your browsing, not taking sites down or removing them from search results.
Correct me if I’m misreading, but the link is to a blog post entitled “...an Opportunity ... to End Censorship”. ISPs and governments snooping on your browsing is surveillance, not censorship. Taking down sites and removing them from search results certainly is censorship.
Re: TLS 1.3 Is an Opportunity for Amazon, Google and Microsoft to End Censorship
#28Why is the assumption always that AMZN, GOOG and MSFT doesn't want censorship? Especially when they have taken to censorship like duck to water. Why is the assumption that when given a "binary choice", entities like China, EU, etc would give in to tech companies? Especially when these companies so easily succumbed to US government/media pressure at home where we have a strong tradition of free speech? When a binary c…
I don't like Google as a whole.
But I don't think Google is evil, in the sense of doing bad things because they're bad. At a low resolution, I think it responds to incentives and tries to make as much money as it can get away with. At a higher resolution, it's made up of a lot of people and smaller groups that each have their own incentives to follow, and whose goals don't exactly line up with Google's.
Fighting censorship is nice for PR, supporting censorship is bad for PR. Some (not all!) ways of supporting censorship might help make more money, but good PR also helps make more money, so it's a trade-off. Drawing attention to Google's ability to fight censorship slightly shifts that trade-off.
But not all of Google's decisions are made centrally. Many (almost all, I would guess) people in Google are well-meaning, and I expect they can get away with making good decisions a lot of the time. The people working on TLS probably aren't individually pro-censorship just because they work for Google, which means they may not make pro-censorship decisions unless specifically pressured to.
Re: TLS 1.3 Is an Opportunity for Amazon, Google and Microsoft to End Censorship
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is a totally different issue. This is about ISPs and governments snooping on your browsing, not taking sites down or removing them from search results.
Correct me if I’m misreading, but the link is to a blog post entitled “...an Opportunity ... to End Censorship”. ISPs and governments snooping on your browsing is surveillance, not censorship. Taking down sites and removing them from search results certainly is censorship.
It is talking about a particular type of censorship where connections are blocked. Think the Great Firewall of China.
It is nothing to do with censorship where the actual source is removed, as with the right to be forgotten and DMCA takedowns.
Re: TLS 1.3 Is an Opportunity for Amazon, Google and Microsoft to End Censorship
#30I'm sure that many countries will block Amazon, Google and whatever else if needed. It won't end censorship, it would make life of ordinary people there even harder.
But, if they do, they have a tougher sell. They might get away with ”we’re just protecting you from certain sites we deem harmful, and we’re thorough with your best interests in mind” when they block specific sites. It requires a far more gullible public to pull that off if it’s more than half the Internet.
They'll just spin it as "supporting local businesses" who could not compete with FANG otherwise.