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Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

nytimes.com

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Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#81

Post by free652 »

stef25 wrote: post #55
announcerman wrote: post #7

The amount of responsibility laundering that's happening is staggering. Is it the fault of the doctors for prescribing strong painkillers or the responsibility of lobbyists for keeping the status quo as it is. Or is it the responsibility of patients to not seek strong opiates for the smallest aches? On whom falls the blame for this?

The doctors. Anyone who spends the better part of a decade studying medicine can't be ignorant about opioids and addiction, regardless of what the slimy Purdue representative tells them. The only excuse they have for the blatant over prescribing of opioids (2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing) is that if they don't do it, the patient will just go to another doctor. But how can you just…

For wisdom teeth I got 25 tablets - that's like around a week worth. So other "patients" ask upfront for more tablets?

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#82

Post by matwood »

free652 wrote: post #81
stef25 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The doctors. Anyone who spends the better part of a decade studying medicine can't be ignorant about opioids and addiction, regardless of what the slimy Purdue representative tells them. The only excuse they have for the blatant over prescribing of opioids (2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing) is that if they don't do it, the patient will just go to another doctor. But how can you just…

For wisdom teeth I got 25 tablets - that's like around a week worth. So other "patients" ask upfront for more tablets?

Wow. I had my ACL done and got 3 days worth of Oxycontin (6 tablets, 1 every 12 hours). I didn't want to finish taking them because they made me hallucinate. Looking back, I probably could have gotten by after the first day with only ibuprofen. The doctor was very concerned about staying ahead of any pain though.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#83

Post by claydavisss »

ssijak wrote: post #42
Nursie wrote: post #24

The war on drugs is a staggering failure. Drugs have infiltrated every level of society, from business leaders and politicians to white and blue collar workers, to the bums on the street. Drugs are causing tens of thousands of deaths a year in the US alone. I dread to think the global total. The casualties of this war are mounting up rapidly. This is before we even count the criminals and enforcers killed in open com…

It is very hypocritical for some politician to tell me what I can and what I can`t put into my body. Recently in UK they enacted a law that criminalize any substance that changes how you feel, but with the following remark "The ban is so wide-ranging that a long list of substances such as alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, food and medical products will have to be given special exemptions." When you thought that you reached…

If you expect society to share the burden of funding your healthcare, you should expect to share oversight of your habits.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#84

Post by nonbel »

stef25 wrote: post #55
announcerman wrote: post #7

The amount of responsibility laundering that's happening is staggering. Is it the fault of the doctors for prescribing strong painkillers or the responsibility of lobbyists for keeping the status quo as it is. Or is it the responsibility of patients to not seek strong opiates for the smallest aches? On whom falls the blame for this?

The doctors. Anyone who spends the better part of a decade studying medicine can't be ignorant about opioids and addiction, regardless of what the slimy Purdue representative tells them. The only excuse they have for the blatant over prescribing of opioids (2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing) is that if they don't do it, the patient will just go to another doctor. But how can you just…

I have a friend who had brain surgeries as a child and then again a few years ago. He said even though he weighed 2-4x more for the recent surgery they gave him half the morphine dose he got when younger. Apparently that dose was only enough make his feet itchy without sufficient pain relief, but they said they couldn't give him any more for whatever reason (legal, hospital policy, etc).

If that story generalizes it may be that somehow outpatients are getting too much painkillers while inpatients are not getting enough. The latter group is, of course, much less likely to get addicted.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#85

Post by mtw »

stef25 wrote: post #55
announcerman wrote: post #7

The amount of responsibility laundering that's happening is staggering. Is it the fault of the doctors for prescribing strong painkillers or the responsibility of lobbyists for keeping the status quo as it is. Or is it the responsibility of patients to not seek strong opiates for the smallest aches? On whom falls the blame for this?

The doctors. Anyone who spends the better part of a decade studying medicine can't be ignorant about opioids and addiction, regardless of what the slimy Purdue representative tells them. The only excuse they have for the blatant over prescribing of opioids (2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing) is that if they don't do it, the patient will just go to another doctor. But how can you just…

> found a physio who taught me how to strengthen my core, now I'm at the gym 2x a week and loving it

Most other patients demand quick and effective pain relief. When most doctors operate within a system that promotes total customer satisfaction and when they know an opioid is going to make the pain go away right now, the opioid prescription is easier. Plus this will make extra dollars for the system.

Changing this would require mindset change for patients (I need to endure the pain and follow a clean diet/exercise), and having doctors look to 360 treatments, including diet, sleep and exercise recommendations, instead of opioids

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#86

Post by MrFantastic »

announcerman wrote: post #7

The amount of responsibility laundering that's happening is staggering. Is it the fault of the doctors for prescribing strong painkillers or the responsibility of lobbyists for keeping the status quo as it is. Or is it the responsibility of patients to not seek strong opiates for the smallest aches? On whom falls the blame for this?

These overdoses happen because society is not educated about the risks of combining opioids with alcohol and the illegal drug supply is unregulated. Imaging if beer all tasted the same but ranged from 2%-95%; 12 oz of pure alcohol would kill quit a few people.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#87

Post by [deleted] »

MrFantastic wrote: post #86
announcerman wrote: post #7

The amount of responsibility laundering that's happening is staggering. Is it the fault of the doctors for prescribing strong painkillers or the responsibility of lobbyists for keeping the status quo as it is. Or is it the responsibility of patients to not seek strong opiates for the smallest aches? On whom falls the blame for this?

These overdoses happen because society is not educated about the risks of combining opioids with alcohol and the illegal drug supply is unregulated. Imaging if beer all tasted the same but ranged from 2%-95%; 12 oz of pure alcohol would kill quit a few people.

[deleted]

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#88

Post by zolthrowaway »

free652 wrote: post #81
stef25 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The doctors. Anyone who spends the better part of a decade studying medicine can't be ignorant about opioids and addiction, regardless of what the slimy Purdue representative tells them. The only excuse they have for the blatant over prescribing of opioids (2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing) is that if they don't do it, the patient will just go to another doctor. But how can you just…

For wisdom teeth I got 25 tablets - that's like around a week worth. So other "patients" ask upfront for more tablets?

Yes, many people will take the largest script the doctor will prescribe. Insurance generally helps cover the cost of the prescription, so reselling them can be really lucrative. Even in your scenario, 25 pills seems like a lot. Many people will be totally pain free in 2-3 days. No one needs 8 pills a day for wisdom teeth. Let's say they take 4 a day for 3 days, that's still 13 pills leftover.

Go to any manual labor job (construction for example) in the Midwest. You will find people wanting to buy leftover prescriptions and people selling them. It's a pretty large black market. The vast, vast majority of people I know doing construction, laying asphalt, etc are all daily drinkers, potheads, or addicted to opiates. It's honestly super depressing.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#89

Post by MrFantastic »

yters wrote: post #45

Interestingly, this all is happening through legal routes. What would happen if hard drugs are fully legalized? Another weird thing, there are already loads of deaths through overdoses in the inner city, but only now it is an epidemic? What changed?

The chain of addiction is started through regulated pharma. Most of these deaths are not from Oxy but all opioids.

People addicted to Oxy find it's cheaper to buy unregulated opioids that vary in potency. The overdoses happen because prohibition ensures their street supplied drugs are Unregulated.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#90

Post by leetcrew »

yters wrote: post #73
3x wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overdoses would decrease. Nearly all recreational drugs should be legalized with regulation to promote safe drug use. These substances should be sold in single individually-packaged doses, with clear and explicit labeling. Taxation can be used to selectively promote the use of safer alternatives to the hardest drugs, for example making marijuana, opium, and mushrooms cheap compared to drugs with a high risk of overdo…

The prior question is: what is causing overdoses? My understanding is the opioids are already regulated, controlled, and dosed appropriately, since most are acquired through medical prescription. Why so many overdoses, then? My hypothesis is the drugs are addictive, and it takes more to get the same high each time, which eventually leads to accidental overdose. Additionally, drug use can lead to feeling trapped and h…

> what is causing overdoses?

overdoses can happen in many ways. sometimes it is genuine user error; ie, the person goes overboard and simply takes too much, or they don't properly account for the drop in tolerance after a period of abstinence.

> most are acquired through medical prescription

this might be true overall, but i'm not sure it's true of illegal/abusive use of the drugs. i can't easily find precise numbers, but prescription drugs appear to account for less than half of total opioid overdose deaths [1].

this brings us to the next (and as far as i can tell, primary) cause of overdose deaths: variance in purity. the purity of heroin varies wildly, anywhere from 10-60% strength on the street. add fentanyl hotspots to the mix, and suddenly addicts are overdosing on what they consider conservative "tester" doses.

[1] https://talbottcampus.com/prescription-drug-abuse-statistics...

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